Russell Phillips Podcast Transcript

Russell Phillips [00:00:00]:
I think something that helped me was because I was young and because I was ambitious and because I hadn’t failed at that time, I just expected us to win. And I think that drive came through the rising tide. It raises all ships. So those people who are up there, they’re so busy shooting down at people that all they’re doing is blowing holes in the bottom of their ship. So when the tide does come in, we’re going to go a lot higher than them and everybody around you goes up. Hindsight is beautiful thing. And I look back now and I go, why Russell? What the hell were you doing? Why didn’t you get out there or there or there or there? Like that whole period of your life you were sat on a motorway and you were given exit after exit after exit. You deliberately chose to sit in the fast lane and keep going.

Melody Moore [00:00:54]:
Welcome to the Secret Resume. I’m Melody Moore, leadership consultant, coach and endlessly curious human. For over 20 years I’ve been helping leaders unlock potential in themselves, their teams and their organisations before we dive in. Do you want to know how entrepreneurial your leadership really is? Why not try my Entrepreneurial Leadership Diagnostic? It takes just 10 minutes and gives you instant insights to grow your impact. You’ll find the link in the show notes. My guest today is Russell Phillips. Russell, really glad to have you here. You and I only met very recently at Ideas Fest.

Melody Moore [00:01:33]:
We had a great conversation in the rain. We were safe and cosy in my gazebo but it was pretty wild and I, I asked you at the time, you know, would you be interested in coming on the podcast? Because I thought you were very interesting and what you’ve done and are doing is really interesting. So why don’t you introduce yourself?

Russell Phillips [00:01:57]:
Yeah, I mean like you just said, thank you so much for having me on your blow up sofa. Was, was the winner there, wasn’t it? Star of the show, what a hero. Until I had to get off of it. But yeah, so my name is Russell. I am the co owner of Sonar Presents. We are a music discovery platform and hopefully we’ll talk a little bit more about that later. In the past I have been a primary school teacher and I’ve run several businesses or at least part run with other people. Several businesses including a sports coaching company and have been a sports coach myself self employed since I was 16 and I also ran a bar tour down in Newquay which I don’t talk about all that often but.

Melody Moore [00:02:44]:
But a bar tour.

Russell Phillips [00:02:46]:
A bar tour, yes, in across New. So yeah, I’ve had a few Businesses, worked with several teams and done several jobs, but definitely a little bit of an entrepreneur. And yeah, above all else, I love. Yeah, I love growing things. So I’m excited and that’s why I.

Melody Moore [00:03:08]:
Wanted to speak to you. So this series is kind of coaches and therapists and so what I thought was really interesting is you have been a coach and you know, you’ve been a sports coach and I think that’s really interesting. You know, how does that, to me, how does that relate to. To business coaching? But also I think I’m really interested in your entrepreneurial side as well and sort of some of the highs and lows, it’s something I’m really interested and passionate about is entre. Entrepreneurship, entrepreneurialism. I think.

Russell Phillips [00:03:41]:
Yeah, we’ll go with those.

Melody Moore [00:03:42]:
Yeah, they sou sound right even if they’re not. So. Yeah, that’s why I thought you’d make a really interesting guest because it’s a. I think it’s a really interesting combination of the two. So let’s dive in. We’re gonna go as we do with everybody, pretty much right back to the beginning. Their first, you know, thing that you’re going to talk about is your family, your, your mum and your dad. So.

Melody Moore [00:04:07]:
And the influence they had on you. So why don’t you start there?

Russell Phillips [00:04:11]:
Yeah, I mean, predominantly my mum was the sort of leader of the family and I know that this whole series is about, like you said, just said, coaching and leadership and she was very much the sort of the head of the family. We were what you would consider quite traditional in terms of family. So dad went to work, mum was there to take us to school, pick us up, bring us back. And yes, she taught us to have some great self confidence, to be who we are. And, you know, they were both super supportive in where we were going and what we were doing. It wasn’t until I was an adult and looked back now that I sort of realised that actually we weren’t very well off and quite often both my mom and my dad went without for. For us. So I’ve got a brother as well and the two of us, yeah, we didn’t want for anything.

Russell Phillips [00:05:18]:
You know, we didn’t necessarily have the newest clothes or we. When we went on holiday we went to Cornwall as opposed to going to, you know, Ibiza or Disneyland. But what we did get to do was those everyday activities. So I got to play tennis and I played tennis from the age of three and I still play tennis now and I love it and I’m a tennis coach. And it means a lot to me that sport. When I wanted to play football, I was allowed to and they made the way to happen. When I wanted to play hockey, they managed to make that happen. And again I became a hockey coach and have had a lot of success and that’s guided me through a lot.

Russell Phillips [00:05:57]:
So they made sure that I and my brother who did taekwondo all the way through to black belt and then he started coaching and leading it as well. And actually in different ways. We’re both, we’re both teachers now, so it was really important to have that, you know, to be able to go and experience all of these things and then be able to kind of put all of those pieces together to become, you know, me. I mean I was, you know, as most people do, that sort of 18 to 20 year old. Russell wasn’t the greatest human being in the world. I mean all good intentions but was probably the best term was cocky and yeah, big bit, bit big for my boots, all of that sort of thing. But I’ll always look back on this and I just know that, you know, at the end of the day the morals were always there. The.

Russell Phillips [00:06:53]:
I knew that if I do good and I look after the people around me, that that will happen. You know, they’ll look after me and you know, at the end of the day we’re all one team and that’s, that’s really, really important and that’s something that I will always hold. And however, whether I’m running a business or whether we’re having a conversation one on one, that’s something that I learned from a very early age, is that we’re all in this together and we’re all on the same team. And I’ve worked with a lot of people, I’ve had a lot of bosses and I’m sure we all have who definitely come across the complete opposite way, let’s be honest. They will stand on people to get higher. They’re more than happy to throw you under the bus. And sometimes it’s tough to sort of feel at the bottom even if you’re not. It’s tough to feel at the bottom sometimes.

Russell Phillips [00:07:49]:
Look up at them and go, hang on a minute. You’re, you’re horrible. And you don’t look after the people around you and we’re still supporting you and there’s no reason for this other than you’ve got more money, you’ve got more power. But I always go back to that sort of family, that family first kind of idealism. And I always just think, you know, the rising tide, it raises all. Shift all ships. So those people who are up there, they’re so busy shooting down at people that all they’re doing is blowing holes in the bottom of their ship. So when the tide does come in, you know, we’re going to go a lot higher than them and.

Russell Phillips [00:08:31]:
And everybody around you goes up. So, yeah, that’s something that I learned from my mum and my dad. It’s. It’s just having those morals and the fact that we are all in this together at all times and I’ve taken that through to my, to my leadership. I’ve taken that through to my sports coaching. I took that through to my business owning, you know, sometimes with interesting, with interesting effects. But yeah, generally it’s put me in good stead and I wouldn’t change it.

Melody Moore [00:08:59]:
And I’m interested. You said that your mum really instilled self confidence in you. How. How did she do that? What do you think she did?

Russell Phillips [00:09:10]:
Yeah, my mum has always been a strong person, a strong character. I remember growing up, you know, there was, it was never feisty, it was never going to be, you know, she never instilled any kind of violence or, or aggression or anything like that at all. But there was very much a.

Melody Moore [00:09:32]:
I.

Russell Phillips [00:09:32]:
Don’T know, I guess like a. I’m going to say like an air of authority, as in to just respect her and her position and my dad and my grandparents and therefore sort of teachers and, you know, I’m going to say respect your elders, but it’s not quite that. It’s respect. People who deserve respect. If they’re trying to help you, if they’re trying to talk to you, then show them the respect. And you, even as a child, you deserve respect as well. That’s something that I’ve taken in. Yeah.

Russell Phillips [00:10:01]:
I was a teacher for primary schools for 10 years and one thing that kids over and over again used to say to me was, we like you because you don’t treat us like children. And of course I do, of course I did. I made sure that they were safe, made sure I looked after them and at the end of the day I was in control of the class because I was a teacher. But to make them feel like that was really important and I remember my mum doing that for us. And that coupled with the fact that, like I said before, we got to experience things and we were never forced to do anything. I remember, I have no idea how old I was. I must have been five, maybe six. And I must have been interested in learning music.

Russell Phillips [00:10:46]:
I wasn’t sure, I don’t remember it all, but I remember going to a piano lesson and I did it and I learned it and I practised it came back out, my mum said, how was it? And I was like, honestly, I didn’t like it. She went, that’s fine, but you’ve tried it and you’ve given it a go. And that was, you know, that was always it where I had the power to say, no, I really didn’t like that, Mum, no, thank you. And I was listened to, which is really important. But the fact that I went and did it and the fact that I went and tried it and the fact that I was given that opportunity, or even if I was pushed into that opportunity, I still feel thankful for it because now I know. But then I had the opportunity to learn piano rather than, oh, I wish I had, you know what I mean? So, and that’s, yeah, I feel like that was really useful for, for me to, to be a bit more well rounded.

Melody Moore [00:11:43]:
And I’m also interested in the fact that both you and your brother, when you did your sports, then ended up coaching others. And I wonder if there was something about the way that you were brought up that led to that, do you think?

Russell Phillips [00:12:00]:
I mean, yeah, possibly. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the two of us did go into the careers that we’ve gone into. I mean, my brother’s one of the, one of the points a bit later down, but he. Touch. He is now an outdoor instructor and an adventurer, so he teaches kayaking and stand up paddleboarding and stuff around the globe, really. But even back then as teenagers, I went into hockey coaching from the age of 16. My brother became an assistant to the taekwondo instructor from an early age. So even though I lent more into team sports and he lent more into sort of individual sports, there was definitely this, I don’t know, this ability to communicate quite clearly and to be able to sort of, I’m gonna say command respect, but that sounds like we ruled with iron fists and that’s not what I mean at all.

Russell Phillips [00:12:59]:
But there, there must have been some kind of air of authority around us or near us. And people say that now, people say that to me now. They go, well, you just, we just know that we need to listen to you and however lovely that is and really useful in a lot of circumstances that is. I don’t know what it was that created that other than I know my mum had it, I know, I know it was there. So I don’t know. I’m not 100% sure what it was, but it must have been a combination of lots of things.

Melody Moore [00:13:34]:
I wonder if there’s. Part of it is the fact that you were used to being listened to because your parents listened to you and therefore you were comfortable stating your opinion. Perhaps that’s maybe where I just think of that respect goes both ways. Doesn’t. If you’re respecting others but you’re used to receiving respect, then maybe you just grew up thinking you had something to.

Russell Phillips [00:13:59]:
Give or to share possibly. Yeah, it was always. You know, a lot of the stuff I said was probably rubbish, especially back then. Oh, probably now even as well, to be honest. But yeah, it was. Yeah, we always did feel listened to and that was both Mum, dad, grandparents. We. We always felt listened to and not.

Russell Phillips [00:14:23]:
Yeah, that was always really important, though. I think I was the biggest thing that we. That we got, you know, we were listened to, we respected. Then we were told we were wrong. Don’t be right. You know, it wasn’t. We weren’t then given the pony and the car and everything. We didn’t get it.

Russell Phillips [00:14:39]:
But we were listened to and that was really important, I think.

Melody Moore [00:14:41]:
Lovely. Love that. Let’s talk then about hockey and your hockey coaching. I’m a huge. I used to play hockey at school. I used to love it. So I was very excited to hear that you were a hockey coach. So you said you.

Melody Moore [00:14:55]:
From 16 onwards you were coaching.

Russell Phillips [00:14:58]:
Yes, yes. So, couple of days after my 16th birthday, I was invited onto the Level 1 England Hockey Coaching course by. Was just. Just before my 19th birthday, I think it was. It might be just after, but somewhere there where I became a level two hockey coach. @ that age I’d already been a captain of one of our men’s teams, which was an interesting one and that was something I learned a lot of because I was. So I started playing adult hockey at 14, which is pretty standard for on the men’s side anyway, at the time. And by.

Russell Phillips [00:15:43]:
Yeah, by 17, I was captain of a hockey tour that we did down in South Devon, just a small one, but I was captain. It was really weird because I was the captain, I was too young to drink, so. Which on a tour, if anybody has ever been on a sporting tour, generally that’s quite a large proportion of the tour. So I think that confused a lot of people when the captain himself had to actually sit outside the pub and wasn’t allowed in. So. Yeah, but. And then at. Well, the end of that year, So I was seven, end of 17 and as I was 18, I became captain of one of our men’s teams.

Russell Phillips [00:16:27]:
And yeah, like I said, there was a real eye opener because it was how you communicate to people, but also you. That was the first time coaching and generally talking, that I was talking up to people, I was talking to people that had been there for years. People who were better than me on the pitch, who, people who, I mean in life were better than me at that point. I’m talking to, you know, doctors and dentists and people generally who have got real careers and they turned up in their Aston Martins and rolled out and went, hi, I’m here to play hockey. And you’ve got this 17 year old, you know, cocky lad going, cool, and I’m your captain. Hi, nice to meet you. You know, I never, I’ll always remember the first time I had to drop a player because they just weren’t turning up to training and we had better players and the weird feeling that was going, excuse me, sir, but you, I need to drop you from the team this week because you’re not, you’re not, you’re not playing at the level that we need you to play at. But we, we won a trophy and we got, we were actually one point off promotion that year, which was arguably disappointing.

Russell Phillips [00:17:41]:
But I look back, I look back now and I was so proud of it. And the year after that I completed my level 2 hockey coaching training and I started coaching at, at the local rival club which at the time, in fairness were, were many, many leagues below and it was on our lady side. And that was different again because I had to talk to a whole host of women and that was a new experience for me. So I had sort of taught children and my peers in terms of age and then I’d had to be sort of the big broad shouldered captain talking, kind of talking to people who are much bigger and much older and much better at hockey than me to going now to ladies, where it’s a lot more about interpersonal skills, where it was a lot more about the sport was a little different in the way they played. The, the tactics were different, the fitness was different and I loved it. I absolutely fell in love with it. But my God, did that take a couple of, a couple of months to get used to how to, how to coach? Not not only how to coach a whole club, which was my first time doing that as a head coach of a whole club, but how to, and how to differentiate between the young juniors coming through and the old heads and how we can mash, sort of amalgamate them all together. But yeah, also we wanted to win.

Russell Phillips [00:19:27]:
They brought me in because they were struggling as a club and we wanted to win things, so we did. We had to tear it all apart and build the foundations up. And I think something that helped me was because I was young and because I was ambitious and because I hadn’t failed at that time, I just expected us to win. And I think that that drive came through and, and we did, we did, we did win. We won a lot. We were. Yeah, we won. I think it was four promotions in five years or something like that.

Russell Phillips [00:20:09]:
Yeah, something like that. We, we was, it was wild. We just, we just kept winning. Our first team overtook the rival team. We didn’t lose a game, we didn’t lose a game against them. And ridiculously, I did this all while still playing with my old club who was, who was local. I was, I was club man of the year that year for taking on extra responsibilities for that club whilst being the head coach of this new club. And then the year after that I took on another hockey club as well.

Russell Phillips [00:20:41]:
It was ridiculous really.

Melody Moore [00:20:43]:
I’m curious of a couple of things. One is why do you think they chose the 17 year old to be the captain of the team in the, you know, sort of going back to that when you just became that captain, what, what was it about you, do you think that made them think, yes, he can captain these people who are older and more experienced and what have you.

Russell Phillips [00:21:08]:
The honest answer is I’m not sure. And I look back now and there are a few people who actually I fell out with in, in the end. Nothing to do with that hockey club necessarily, but it linked that. The fallout links to something. I’ll explain in a minute, but the. I had people who respected me and had people who thought that I could be successful in this coaching side of things. And I don’t know whether that was something that they saw in me and thought they would take it. I don’t know if just nobody else wanted it.

Russell Phillips [00:21:50]:
I know that I did not put my name forward for it. I know that my name was put forward for me because I was actually playing in the team below. So I was actually level wise, I was playing in the team below at that time. So I actually came up a league which was, which was always the intention because it was the level that I needed to play at. But I was actually going to come up a league and then became the coach which was a very weird situation for a young lad to be in.

Melody Moore [00:22:19]:
How did you feel?

Russell Phillips [00:22:22]:
Proud and terrified in a. In an exactly 50, 50 split I think I knew I. I was frustrated that I hadn’t been given. That I hadn’t been given a go at that level the year before. I knew that I was good enough to play that. That level of hockey. I knew that that was a step in my development, and I knew that as a player, I deserved to be there, and I would die on that hill. I was good enough to play in that league and I proved it in the end.

Russell Phillips [00:22:57]:
So there was frustration there that I hadn’t been moved up. But, yeah, at no point did I ever think I’d be a captain there. And honestly, people just got around me very quickly. I made sure that I had a very experienced couple of vice captains around me. I even let them take the first couple of team talks so that I could understand how they wanted me to say it. So it was very. It was a very strange experience. All I can do is thank those people that got around me at the time and thank that team.

Russell Phillips [00:23:39]:
That team really did believe in me and I grew with them. You know, we struggled, we stuttered at the start, and I can only put that down to me. I can only put that down to me and my sort of lack of leadership at that point. We stuttered. I wasn’t quite sure where to. What you. What formations these people wanted to play in and how we wanted to look. I knew what I wanted, but I didn’t know how it fitted them.

Russell Phillips [00:24:05]:
And I actually, in the end, I brought in some younger players from the other team, which helped me because there was an automatic respect there because I brought them up and they fought for me and I really appreciated that. But I think it came from, you know, again, what we said right at the beginning, that we were in it together. I was fighting with them, I was playing in positions I didn’t want to play in because I wanted to make sure that they felt happy and comfortable and, yeah, I think that they appreciated that and they fought for me and with me, and we got through it. We got through it together.

Melody Moore [00:24:47]:
Have you taken learning from that experience? Like, has it. You know, have you had similar experiences but in a business context, for instance?

Russell Phillips [00:24:59]:
Yes, yes and no. So I remember the first time, my first. So I’ve been working since I was 11, I think. You know, I had a paper round and then I started working at a local theme park. As a teenager, I worked in some pubs. A lot of it, I’ll be honest with you, a lot of it. I think people just go, oh, he. He’s fine.

Russell Phillips [00:25:26]:
I pick things up quite quickly. That doesn’t mean I’m great. It doesn’t mean I know what I’m, what I’m doing a lot of the time. But I guess I give this air of, oh, he seems to know what he’s doing.

Melody Moore [00:25:38]:
You’re good at faking it. Is that what you say?

Russell Phillips [00:25:40]:
Well, yeah, but not intentionally by any means. People just go, oh, yeah, you’re all right with that, aren’t you? And then just, they just bugger off and leave me. So then I have to work out on the fly. My first job as an adult was, was with, in a stainless steel exhaust manufacturing company. I was there about 10 months, maybe a year, and I worked my way up beautifully. So I applied for a van driving job because I had nowhere else to go. I decided that I wasn’t going to go to uni at that point and then didn’t really have anything to go to, so I was just applying for jobs left, right and centre. And when, when this one came back and said, we’d love an interview with you, I turned up and the first thing the chap said was, what the hell are you doing? Why would I ever employ you for this job if I was looking like, I’m looking for a van driver and you, you don’t tick any of the boxes.

Russell Phillips [00:26:45]:
My gut response, which I said verbally was, when then why the hell have you brought me in here? Because it was, it was a 15 minute drive, which isn’t a lot, but at, at, at that age, at that time, why are you wasting my time? And he genuinely said, I don’t know what to do with you, but I don’t want anybody locally to have you come in on, come in on Monday and we’ll work something out. And within two months I had covered every position in that, in that place from, from working the phones and being in the office to writing invoices, to taking orders, to being in the factory. I learned every bit of it from, you want me to weld you? Even now, if you want me to weld up a stainless steel exhaust, I’ve got you. I am, I am your man. And then I slowly went into the distribution side of things, which sounds fancy, it’s not. I was putting stuff in boxes and sending it out. But then I started to do the ordering system for that, which was a bit different. Then the previous manager of that area left and I just sort of started covering it and the boss went, you know what, you’re covering it so well, just do it, just take that job.

Russell Phillips [00:28:05]:
So I became, yeah, that sort of distributions manager. But I knew that it was only ever going to be part time. It’s not something that I ever wanted to do but it was a great way of just being thrown into it and somebody backing me, backing me and going, I don’t know what to do with you and I’m not sure you’re the right person yet, but I’m willing to gamble on you. And that reverts back to your question. So sorry, there was a bit of a waffle in there. But it does revert back to your question.

Melody Moore [00:28:33]:
Yeah. And I think there seems to be a theme of people taking a gamble on you. You know, already we’ve heard that several times and we’ve only got to you being 18.

Russell Phillips [00:28:47]:
I think, I think I might have been 20 at that point.

Melody Moore [00:28:49]:
But yeah, still. But yeah, that makes all the difference.

Russell Phillips [00:28:53]:
Yeah.

Melody Moore [00:28:53]:
So yeah, no, amazing. Let’s go back to the, to the coaching. I, I’m curious what you think makes a good. I’m very interested in the fact that it was team coaching for a start because that’s different to individual coaching. So I’m interested in what you think makes a really good sports team coach.

Russell Phillips [00:29:23]:
Well, I think actually team coaching, team coaching is very different and I personally find it easier than one on one coaching. I’ve coached tennis for a number of years and it’s really tough. It’s a long 45 minutes to an hour on a tennis court when you’re trying to work with somebody on a specific skill. And I think when you’re team coaching, particularly hockey, but rugby, football, I’ve done a lot of sports with a lot of different age ranges and team sports are a bit easier because it’s. Yes, you still work with those people individually, yes, you still pull people one to one and have the conversations with them. But everything is, then goes back to how do we improve together, how do we improve as a team? And I find that a lot easier because I’m very good at pointing out that we’re all in this together and that if I’m not doing my job well, you’re going to struggle. But if you’re not doing your job well, you’re making my life difficult as well. And I think it’s about just showing that you’re on the same team as them, that you’re all on an even playing field.

Russell Phillips [00:30:46]:
And for me, for me that’s the most important thing and that’s the most important element. Then you can talk about tactics, then you can talk about skills, then you can talk about abilities as individuals. And as a team, you can hold one person accountable, you can hold a group of people accountable. But at the end of the day, something that I say, I used to say pretty much on a daily basis while I was teaching in schools and whilst I’m on, whilst I’ve been on the side of pitches or courts or whatever, it’s, we, we win as a team and we lose the team. So if we all put this together and we all have a good game, we give the rest of our team the perfect opportunity to succeed. But it only takes one person to, you know, if you score, if I scored home goal, we’re all losing. One nil, we’re all down a goal. Even if you haven’t touched the ball yet, if I’m not doing my job properly, I’m not helping you or I’m deliberately doing something against you.

Russell Phillips [00:31:56]:
Yes, okay, it’s all me, it’s all my fault. I’m the reason. But you’re still a goal down, you’re still losing. And I think if you can get that over to. But if I score, we’re winning, we are winning. If I score, we are winning. If you score, I get to win. And that for me was my biggest kind of point as I put across.

Russell Phillips [00:32:17]:
And I think, I think that’s really important. And if you can get people behind you with that, you get a whole team behind your whole club or everybody behind you, then there’s no stopping you. You will continue going forward. All it takes is one person to keep kicking own goals and things will fall apart.

Melody Moore [00:32:39]:
It really makes me think about business teams and especially senior level business teams where often I think they’re not necessarily playing for the same side or they’re not behaving as though they’re playing for the same side because they’re behaving as though they’re just their part of the business is the most important part and not the success of the business as a whole.

Russell Phillips [00:33:07]:
Yeah, and I’ve got a lot less, I’ve got a lot less experience in that side of things. In terms of the corporate structures, a lot of the jobs and a lot of the businesses I’ve done are smaller. But I’ve been in some schools where certain teachers have had certain agendas and other teachers have got a different agenda. And even in a school setting it can break apart. In a sports coaching, you know, in a sports setting, as a player and as a coach, it is so obvious when one or two people are going the wrong direction and you see that all the way through, you see that professionally, in. I mean, premier league football in particular. But you see that in so many sports, in so many activities, politics, even, you know, everybody. It’s a shame.

Russell Phillips [00:33:58]:
The. It’s. It’s a shame because if we did all pull the same way and every organisation pulled the same way and there wasn’t that person deliberately kicking the ball into the. Into their own goal and making everyone lose. Yeah, you’d see a lot more success, but.

Melody Moore [00:34:13]:
Yeah, for sure, for sure. So just to close off the. The hockey coaching discussion, what happened? Why. Why did you stop coaching that team?

Russell Phillips [00:34:28]:
Yeah, so I actually. We got to the point where they. They were a ladies club and the men’s club, or the men. The. The club that I was playing for was. Was everybody. They had juniors, men’s and ladies. And the.

Russell Phillips [00:34:44]:
The club that I had moved to and was coaching was just a ladies club and a small junior section. Well, whilst I was there. So I was there. I was there initially three years, and those three years, the junior section had practically tripled because we just put in some really good foundations and people wanted to come and they had a great catchment area. It really helped. So then we. I decided that maybe we should put in a men’s team because by that point, the club that I was playing for, the club that I’d grown up with, they were starting to lose members to other clubs and there was a few sort of political bits, people scoring own goals. So I thought at this point, I was offered money through Active England to go and set up a men’s club.

Russell Phillips [00:35:40]:
And we did. So within two years, we had set up a men’s club and we started running it and it’s still going strong today. But there were a few. Honestly, there were a few too many people in the organisation who were out for themselves and I am not. At the time, I was bitter. At the time, I was hurt. The fact that I, you know, it was my name on it, it was my club, it was my reputation. I’d done everything to make sure that it worked and I’d given up a lot and two or three people had come in and spread rumours, had basically tried to seize power over it and I stepped away before I got kicked out.

Russell Phillips [00:36:28]:
Effectively. If I look back at it now, it’s probably a blessing in disguise because I managed to go back to my old club. After a bit of awkwardness, they, you know, they welcomed me back with open arms and it is lovely to see another hockey club in that area. But, yeah, for a while. For a while. Did I want them to Succeed. No, I’ll be honest with you, I wanted them to struggle. I wanted them to, you know, suffer and drown.

Russell Phillips [00:36:57]:
Now I look back and I go, yeah, I’m still really proud of. Of the creating of that club. But that was the reason why those people at my first club, those people that had backed me when I was. When I was 17, is a big reason why a lot of them didn’t. They. They were less keen to welcome me back. They were less happy with the fact they thought it was a bit of a betrayal that I’d gone and created another team. Even though it was, you know, four or five years later down the line, they were a bit hurt on that.

Russell Phillips [00:37:30]:
I fully appreciate that now I’ve cleared it up with most of them, the ones that are still around and the ones that are still playing. But, yeah, there was a. It was a tough experience that. And it was a real learning curve to see, actually. Even if you think you’re doing the right thing and even if you think you’re doing something that’s actually really good for the community. And we won, like, we were winning. We were doing well. And it was a real.

Russell Phillips [00:38:00]:
For me, that was the first time where we were. Yeah, I was at the top, or we were at the top and somebody had still sort of taken us down, somebody was still scoring own goals, somebody was still deliberately trying to pull the rug out from under my feet. And I didn’t understand it at the time. Now I very much do. And it’s fine. I’m very happy with who I am and what I am. But, yeah, at the time, man, was that annoying.

Melody Moore [00:38:28]:
I can imagine. Well, I can’t imagine because it’s never happened to me, but I can think, I can imagine that that would be a very difficult time. Yeah, let’s move on. And I don’t know if this is related to what you just talked about, but you. You said you had a period where you were at rock bottom, and I’m. Yeah. Do you want to talk a little bit about that?

Russell Phillips [00:38:53]:
Yeah. I mean, I’ve put rock bottom in terms of me and I know that rock bottom will mean something different to everybody. You know, I never. I never had drink issues or drug issues or any. Anything like that where a lot of people would say, well, my God, you know, your rock bottom is. Is fine compared to others. And I fully appreciate that. So when I call it rock bottom, I don’t want to talk down, you know, anybody or make it dramatised.

Russell Phillips [00:39:20]:
But to me, to me, it was. It was a huge Step I had my sports coaching company where we were working in schools and one bad deal that, that had happened outside of my control. So I was running a franchise and the franchise owner had basically told me that we were going to get this big new contract in and that because it was in my. My county, my area, that it would be me and that I needed to go get coaches and I need to go get sorted and we were going to make money from this and it was great. And when it didn’t happen, I’d already spent all this money. With hindsight, it was a silly business move by me, but I was still reasonably young. I was 26, 25, 26 somewhere there and quite naive. I trusted him.

Russell Phillips [00:40:26]:
We’d worked together really well before, so I thought it was, you know, we were going to succeed. When it didn’t happen, what I should have done was cut my losses. And hindsight is 20 20. What I should have done was cut my losses. I’d made profit from the company, the company was doing well. And what, yeah, what I should have done was, was sold it there and then. But I was stubborn and I had been winning. You know, I was.

Russell Phillips [00:40:59]:
Well, at the time, I was sort of 23 and I had the house, the car, the career, the girl. I had it all. And so, so when this came around at sort of 25, 26, I was like, what’s mine? I got this. I’m always winning. It’s not a big deal. I can do this. And then, so then I had to get a cheaper car. That’s fine, it’s okay, I can do this.

Russell Phillips [00:41:22]:
Not a problem. Then I started to struggle to make the house payments. That’s all right, it’s not a problem. It’s fine. I’ve got, like, friends I can sleep, I can stay with. That’s not a big deal. It’s okay. So that.

Russell Phillips [00:41:34]:
And then you kind of get into a place where you’re too deep, you’ve invested everything you had still trying to build this thing. And in fairness, although I got it out there, I basically managed to clear off my debt. So when I sold the company, I effectively cleared the debt. So at that point, I’ve lost my car, I’ve lost my house, I’ve lost my partner through that and a few different things. Neither of us were that shallow.

Melody Moore [00:42:04]:
But you’ve got no money. I’m not going to be with you.

Russell Phillips [00:42:09]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it absolutely, absolutely wasn’t that. But there, you know, but, but that, that had broken up as well. I was sleeping in A van on a friend’s driveway and not really sure what to do and where to go. And career wise, I knew that I didn’t want to go. I knew that I wasn’t going to be a professional sportsman at that age. I knew that sports coaching wise, it was really tricky. It was going to be a really tough gig and I wasn’t sure I wanted to do that anymore.

Russell Phillips [00:42:45]:
I’d been burnt by the creation of the hockey club and that sort of, from my personal terms, falling out. And I struggled. I really struggled. I went and did some building for a bit and I’m really thankful for the guys that gave me that work. I went into gardening for a few months and then in the end I worked out that this is ridiculous. And I went back into teaching and I went back to teaching full time. But I knew there was something missing in me. And, you know, when you.

Russell Phillips [00:43:28]:
My rock bottom sounds soft and sounds tame to everybody else, but I think it’s because I was. I felt like I was so high. I felt like I’d achieved. I kind of felt we’re taught especially well, less so now, thankfully. I think it’s possibly one of those positives from. From COVID is that we’re well and the fact that no one can afford anything anymore, but we’re. We’re taught that, you know, you’ve succeeded in the Western world anyway. You’ve succeeded once you’ve got the career and the house and the car, tick, tick, tick, then if you want family, great.

Russell Phillips [00:44:08]:
Succeeded on that as well. Then you get the dog and the picket fence and then you’re done. And you wait until you die and that’s life and you’ve never nailed it. And I’d nailed that from an early age. I’d done it and then I lost a lot of it. And then I realised that actually none of that made me happy in the first place. And by hitting there and going, hang on a minute, this isn’t. This doesn’t have to be my job, this doesn’t have to be my career, this doesn’t have to be a path.

Russell Phillips [00:44:35]:
And it did. It just broke open a whole sort of realm of possibilities. I didn’t know what I wanted to do, but I knew that wherever I wanted to go and whatever I wanted to do, I could succeed at it. Um, and that’s when I started joining the bar tour and started working with that. And we did well, we’re making money, it was good and I was doing that and I was happy with the friends and the family that I had around me. And it’s incredible when, you know, the, when you, when that support system comes out and comes around you at that time, when your friends and your family who go, yeah, it’s you, we care about you. We don’t care about what you had or what you have now, what you did have or didn’t have or whatever. Like, it’s you, we care about you.

Russell Phillips [00:45:26]:
Let’s get you moving forward. And that was huge because it’s amazing how many people dropped off during that time, rightly or wrongly. And everybody can be their own person. But yeah, it genuinely shows you who’s actually there and who really is there. And those people I will hold dearly now and I will cling on with them all the way through until we get to the top, you know. But, yeah, they’re, they’re, they’re so important to me. And that was something that I think, I don’t think I’d have really appreciated unless I’d sort of lost everything else.

Melody Moore [00:46:05]:
It’s interesting what you say about, you know, your rock bottom and comparing that to other people’s and it’s something I notice people do a lot is we kind of minimise our own experience because we know somebody else has had it worse. And I always encourage people not to minimise their own experience because it was important to you and it was significant what you went through. And it kind of doesn’t make matter or doesn’t reduce the impact on you, the fact that someone else had, you know, a different problem, you know, a worse problem, whatever. But it’s really common that I hear people doing that. And I’m always saying to people, your experience is valid regardless of other people’s experiences. And I. What I love hearing is, is the way that it opened up your, your thoughts on success. Like you say, you had those traditional trappings of a success at really quite a young age compared to a lot of people.

Melody Moore [00:47:12]:
I think that’s much more common when people haven’t gone to university. You, you kind of get that, you know, that, that at a quicker rate because you haven’t had the three years holiday university. But yeah, I think it’s, it’s really quite profound to hear how much it influenced you and influenced your kind of worldview. It sounds like.

Russell Phillips [00:47:40]:
Yeah, definitely. I think, you know, again, it stems back to the first point of being, of being able to see how the world is into. In terms of like, if the world listens, you can talk and if you want to talk, if the world talks, you should listen. And I There was, you know, there was a lot there that I didn’t listen to. You know, hindsight is beautiful thing. And I look back now and I go, what, Russell? What the hell were you doing? Why didn’t you get out there or there or there or that? Like that whole period of your life, you were sat on a motorway and you were given exit after exit after exit, and you deliberately chose to sit in the fast lane and keep going and, you know, and inevitably you run out of fuel, mate, you’re not gonna get there and that. And that’s what happened. And it was a pretty crap push of the vehicle to the.

Russell Phillips [00:48:42]:
To the next lay by. But yeah, like I said, people get out there. That’s a really metaphoric. Yeah, you heard that, right? That was good.

Melody Moore [00:48:49]:
I love that metaphor. And I’m absolutely gonna be stealing.

Russell Phillips [00:48:53]:
Stealing that one.

Melody Moore [00:48:55]:
I have no idea. Pride, I think.

Russell Phillips [00:48:57]:
I have no idea where that came from at all. But yeah, I mean, thank. Yeah, thank God people. Yeah. There were friends and family there who pulled over and. And pushed me because I was ignoring everybody who was driving past me with their finger out the window. I was ignoring them.

Melody Moore [00:49:13]:
Where. Where are the people saying to you? Get out? Not get out. Like every.

Russell Phillips [00:49:20]:
Every day of my life, Melody, every day of my life.

Melody Moore [00:49:27]:
Did they. Were people saying to you, you should sell the business?

Russell Phillips [00:49:31]:
Yes. Yeah, there were people definitely telling me to cut my losses and go, but I hid a lot of it as well. I look back now, probably not as well as I thought. My fuse was short, my stress levels were high. The bags under my eyes told a story. And probably my aggression on a hockey and a rugby pitch were quite clear to see that there was probably something going on at home. But, yeah, I didn’t. I didn’t voice it.

Russell Phillips [00:50:05]:
And that’s something. That’s something that I forgot and that’s something that I neglected to. To talk about. I don’t know whether I felt shame. I don’t know whether I felt I wasn’t used to losing now that I could lose a sport game, no problem. I, you know, still can. And none of that was an issue. I’ve lost.

Russell Phillips [00:50:31]:
I’ve, you know, I’ve experienced loss, but that was my first. That was the first time where I just seen it was all on me. You know, it wasn’t other people scoring an own goal. It wasn’t a, oh, we lost, but I played well type of scenario in life. That was a, no, you’ve lost because you’ve lost. It wasn’t even that somebody else was Better you’ve lost. And that took a while to work out. And I wasn’t working it out is the honest answer for how much sports coaching I was doing at the time.

Russell Phillips [00:51:08]:
I was saying it and saying it and saying it over and over again. You know, I could use all the words, but I wasn’t implementing it in my own life or I wasn’t acknowledging that it was there even. I don’t know. But. But yeah, you know, the, the positives are that it did open up a whole new world and it showed me that actually success isn’t about, you know, money and power and control. It’s actually just, are you happy? Can you afford to survive and are you happy? And do you have the right people around you to make you happy? And yeah, that’s something that I’ve. Well, I was going to say that’s something that I’ve chased ever since, but actually it’s not something I’ve needed to chase. It’s just something that I’ve made sure that is a part of me now because I didn’t need to chase it.

Russell Phillips [00:51:58]:
It was there, it has been there. And if anything that’s just grown and that’s, that’s been massive, you know, it’s massive. And it gives me the confidence to go again. Because at that time I didn’t think I’d ever want to go again. I thought, that’s it. I just, just work in a supermarket and I’ll be done with that. And that’s, that’s fine if that’s what you want to do. And if you, and if, you know, I’m never ever gonna talk down or look down at anybody who chooses that kind of career or any job at all.

Russell Phillips [00:52:29]:
But yeah, for me, I knew that I wanted to do something different and I wanted to run a business again and I wanted to try again. But at the time, yeah, I wasn’t in a position where I thought I could.

Melody Moore [00:52:42]:
Yeah. Tell me about getting stuck in Costa Rica, because that sounds awesome.

Russell Phillips [00:52:48]:
Yeah, that was, that was game changing. That was. Yeah, that was probably the single biggest sort of moment of my life. So whilst all of you guys across pretty much the whole world were in lockdown and stuck in your houses, I was trapped in an indigenous. Trapped in a Costa Rican rainforest with an indigenous village just across the river. So, yeah, it was cool. I, I was very fortunate when I went back from the gardening job during my sort of rough stage, I went back to teaching and Because I could go back to teaching straight away, because I didn’t need to Give much notice, period. Basically we agreed, I agreed with the school that I would be able to go and see my brother who was working in Panama at the time, the February afterwards.

Russell Phillips [00:53:46]:
So I started work in October and the February, after February of 2020 that would have been then I was going to have the half term and actually I was given another two weeks. Instead of notice, I was given an extra two weeks. And that was a lovely agreement that the head teacher sorted out for me and I was so happy and so thankful. So I went to see my brother in Panama and there was no such thing as Covid. The word didn’t exist. Nobody had a clue what that was. And we had a lovely time out in Panama. He had to do a visa run because he was out there for six months and you’re only allowed to be out there for three months at a time on his, on his pass.

Russell Phillips [00:54:30]:
But at the time I think they’ve changed it out. But at the time he was allowed to go out of the country for a week and then come back. So I was going to go with him to Costa Rica and we were going to go explore. We landed in San Jose, went out, we did everything that you could possibly do in Costa Rica. We climbed the volcanoes, we went rapid riding. We saw the leopards and the sloths and every bird and animal that you could think of and it was beautiful. And we got back into San Jose at a lodge. We were staying in a hostel and the hostel came, owner came to us and probably about 10 other people who were there and said, we close tomorrow, you all have to go.

Russell Phillips [00:55:16]:
So that we didn’t actually mind, that’s fine, we’re flying back tomorrow morning, you know, sorry to the rest of you guys, but we’re okay. And we all went out to lunch, everybody, English speaking, from all over the. All over the world. There was Iranians there, German, a couple of Spanish. It was beautiful, it was really lovely. And we all went out to dinner and oh my goodness, it was when we first turned up, it was like, hey, hey, you, come on in, come on in. Hey, you want this, you want that, you want sunglasses? Come by. And that last day, we’re walking out and not one restaurant wanted us anywhere.

Russell Phillips [00:55:55]:
We had to go. We had to walk miles before we found somewhere that would let us eat. And I turned to my brother and up on the TV screens they were covering aeroplanes. And I said, matt, that’s our plane. And it was our bloody flight number on the tail of the aeroplane getting wrapped up or live on the News. And he’s going, oh, it’s fine, because they’re not. There’s nothing online, there’s nothing online saying that ours is cancelled. And then within 10 minutes, bang, your flight is cancelled.

Russell Phillips [00:56:26]:
Don’t know what to do. We were going to get on a bus. They said, yeah, you could get on a bus, but you can’t cross the border. So you would just be stuck. So the people who did the whitewater rafting, I rang them, an American expat and his beautiful family, and they have a lodge right in the rainforest on the river and they said, you know what, Gather the people that need it and for $10 a night you guys can stay and we’ll bring, we’ll have a guide with you. And we stayed there for just under three months. So.

Melody Moore [00:57:08]:
Wow.

Russell Phillips [00:57:09]:
Just under three months in the rainforest, you know, showering under waterfalls every again, every animal you could possibly think of. We woke up with monkeys coming through the, coming through the huts. There were jaguar, we were fishing and jaguar just came like, the other side of the river. It was, yeah, it was wild. We learned, we learned how to. We learned how to forage, we learned how to fish the, the traditional way. It was wild. It was amazing.

Russell Phillips [00:57:39]:
It was absolutely amazing. And it was, it was life changing. It was absolutely game changing for me because I realised actually you don’t need anything, you know, lived in. I had, I lived three months with a tiny rucksack worth of stuff because that’s all I flew out with. Most of my stuff was still in Panama. I didn’t miss it, didn’t need it. I was still teaching from Costa Rica. You had to climb a mountain.

Russell Phillips [00:58:12]:
So what I would do is I would record videos of me teaching and videos of us in the camp playing all these different sports games and doing these sports exercises. I was like a. I was like a very suntanned, slightly chubbier Joe Wicks.

Melody Moore [00:58:31]:
Costa Rican Joe.

Russell Phillips [00:58:33]:
Yeah, I was, yeah. And then, and then you’d have to. I’d hike up this mountain once, once a week and I’d call the embassy and then I would send everything to send everything to the head teacher and then he would split it through for me. Um. But, yeah, it was, it was wild. But I promise you, three months and everybody else is at that point is going, oh, you know, it’s gonna be nice to go home. It’ll be nice to do this, be nice to that. And I don’t want to leave, I don’t want to go.

Russell Phillips [00:59:01]:
I so happy. I was so happy there, you know, and you got it, you got to come back and you’ve got to work. But that I genuinely, that moment, thought, what do I want out of life? Like, how do I want to do this? Because it’s not that tradition. I think I was still hanging on to the. I’ll get the car back, I’ll get the house back, I’ll get the stuff back. And I look back, you know, and that the Costa Rican thing went, nah, you don’t. You don’t need those things. Like, you really don’t need those things.

Russell Phillips [00:59:29]:
You need safety and security and we have that at the lodge. The rest of it, just. Just enjoy life, you know, Just. Just enjoy it. Yeah. And that was massive. That was massive for me. And that’s.

Russell Phillips [00:59:43]:
I. Within, I know, less than a month of me returning back, I went straight back and straight into. Straight into teaching, straight back into schools because schools had opened up at that point for. For certain children and that was mainly my class. So I went straight back into teaching. And although it was nice to be back, it genuinely felt like something had changed. Like, this isn’t what I want to do for the rest of my life. And I analysed what have I actually missed? Like, genuinely, what have I missed in the last four weeks, or, sorry, last four months.

Russell Phillips [01:00:23]:
And it was live music, it was going to concerts, it was going and hanging out with my mates at festivals. So I decided that’s what I want to do for the rest of my life. That’s what. That’s. That’s what I want to do. So, yeah, within four weeks of returning, I’d enrolled into a university course to get. To go into the music industry, predominantly to make contacts. I didn’t.

Russell Phillips [01:00:46]:
I didn’t need the degree I was already teaching because my sports quals got me into most of it. But, yeah, I needed. I wanted to do it for the connection. For the connections and the contacts. So I did. And, yeah, I haven’t really looked back, to be honest.

Melody Moore [01:01:06]:
So before we will come back to that, because obviously that’s what you’re doing now, but just to kind of finish off the. The key people and experiences in your life. Your brother, who you mentioned there, you’d. Was he in Costa Rica with you?

Russell Phillips [01:01:19]:
He was, yeah. Yeah. So he. Yeah, I put him. I put him as my fifth because. Because he lives how. Initially I always thought, dude, what are you doing with your life? Like, And I’ll be honest with you, I always sort of, growing up, I sort of thought that. And I’m, you know, every now and again, I still do when he goes on some kind of wild adventure.

Russell Phillips [01:01:46]:
But he is. So basically he’s an adventurer. He is an outdoor instructor and he, he was one of the first people to stand up paddleboard a large part of the Amazon rainforest. He is the first person to stand up paddleboard a certain river in Mongolia. I don’t know all the ins and the outs. He’s just securing funding at the moment, I believe for doing something amazing in the Antarctica with stand up paddle boards. So he’s coming? Yeah, yeah, very. He’s currently in New Zealand.

Russell Phillips [01:02:26]:
He is doing, he takes people out on walks across like the volcano walks. And I actually went out to see him last year and, and he took me on the walk and it’s incredible, it’s beautiful. He has never gone down that route of I need to have the house and the car, I need to have this. What he, he’s always put forward that next adventure. He’s always put forward that next, the next discovery. And I think that’s, that’s something that I’ve always been, I guess, a little envious of because I’ve always chased having the thing and now I’m older and in particular it ties in with the Costa Rica experience. I don’t, yeah, I’d rather have experiences I’d rather have, you know, I think everybody says, oh, I’d rather have experiences than, than things and possessions, but actually most of us still buy the possession rather than going on holiday or buy something rather than going and travelling or. We’ll stick.

Russell Phillips [01:03:34]:
Yeah. But I really like going to a certain area of Spain so I’ll go do that again as opposed to going, well, hang on a minute, Albania is really cheap this time of year. Why not give that a go? And he wouldn’t, he would always do the opposite and I’ve learned from that and now I am doing the opposite. I mentioned Albania because I was there last week. Just literally they’re so cheap and it’s so beautiful. Go to Albania, people, it’s beautiful.

Melody Moore [01:04:01]:
Are you sponsored by the Albanian tourists?

Russell Phillips [01:04:04]:
If they, I tell you what, if they wanted to, if they wanted to, I would definitely look into it.

Melody Moore [01:04:13]:
So let’s talk about sonar presents then. 1. What, why sonar? Because in my mind sonar is. Isn’t that what they do with submarines? That’s what I think of with sonar.

Russell Phillips [01:04:27]:
Yeah, yeah. So sonar as a name. There’s a, there’s sort of a lot to it and nothing to it all at the same time. The fact is what we’re trying to do is put new Musicians, new artists, independent artists on your radar, a little bit like a sonar. So if you are thinking that you are sat there, you’re the submarine and you’re out scanning for new music, it’s a world of mess out there, in particular with AI now where you’ve got no idea whether it’s real music or not real music, whether it’s a real artist or not, whether it’s one of the large corporations force feeding certain music that they get paid to force feed you or not, whether it’s a session musician or whether it’s the real artist even it’s sometimes difficult to tell. Now, so whilst you’re scanning and it’s going everywhere we like we, you know, the idea is that we are, you can use us and we can be that brighter beep on, on your radar or on your sonar every time. So there’s a little bit of that, I mean in terms of without going into too much, but had to begin with an S. Spotify begins with an S.

Russell Phillips [01:05:47]:
So far, sounds starts with an S. People automatically see that and it looks like Spotify, it sounds like some of the others and you go, oh yeah, okay, cool. It’s automatically affiliated somewhere deep in your brain that it’s there. It can go. We can go into so many intricacies about why we’ve designed the logo, how we’ve designed it and what it means and how it can sit. But the fact is sonar and sonar presents, the concept is that we are trying to bring you in contact with the other artists or with artists. We are the middleman, I guess with it, with a platform for you to discover them because they’re there and they’re screaming, they’re screaming and they’re shouting but you can’t hear them. So yeah, we’re going to try and put them on your radar.

Melody Moore [01:06:45]:
And do you think that’s got worse? Yes, it’s become harder for young. I don’t. Young, I don’t mean as in age but as a new, let’s say artists early in their career to be found.

Russell Phillips [01:06:59]:
Yeah, absolutely. And there are, there are lots of pros and cons to all of the technology that we have now and all of the ability that we have and what computers can do. For example, we are sat miles and miles away from each other and we’re having this podcast now. The bonus is that now I do not need a recording studio. If I was an artist, I don’t need a recording studio. Now I just need a laptop and I could plug instruments straight into this or I Can plug in. The recording software is so easy and accessible now that I can do this. And what that does is that gives me an opportunity to put my music out there.

Russell Phillips [01:07:44]:
The downside is it gives everybody else the opportunity to get out there, which means it’s saturated and it’s really difficult to shout through that massive cloud. You know, it’s. I don’t know, it’s difficult to pick out one tadpole when there’s an entire pond of tadpoles. So it’s really hard to do that. And then you couple it with the fact that the music industry currently is owned by a very small percentage. And actually, if you look at all businesses, they’re owned by a very, very small percentage of people who have their fingers in everything. Even if. And that’s, you know, it’s difficult.

Russell Phillips [01:08:29]:
And that’s what we’re all fighting through and we’re fighting against. But the problem is that then those artists who are picked and are selected, they are given the leg up and they’re given the support slots. They’re given the platform to grow and be massive. And that’s huge for that artist. But for that one artist, there’s a million artists that don’t have that leg up and don’t get that opportunity. And then we. And then you combine that with the fact that stages are becoming. There are fewer stages at some of the bigger festivals now and the ones that are actually, we’ve got artists playing three, four times a weekend now, as opposed to having slots for up and coming musicians.

Russell Phillips [01:09:21]:
We’ve got one of the biggest growing live music things that is going on at the moment is tribute acts, tributes and cover music. And to cut costs, even those are now not having an opening artist. It’s cheaper to just play some music beforehand. It’s cheaper for one of those bands, even a large band, to play twice than it is to have opening support acts. And that’s not everything, and that’s not all the way through. But there are less and less and less opportunities for artists to actually connect with an audience. So it’s a really tough one because, yes, everything in this world right here, right now, gives an artist, any artist, a real, true opportunity to go in as an equal and put their music out there for you to find it. The downside is there are a lot less opportunities.

Russell Phillips [01:10:25]:
So all of those artists, and there are more, more than ever, arguably, now have less platforms. So they’re all fighting for those little platforms and those little opportunities. And it’s something that I. I saw and I noticed When I was working at, at some festivals, that was when I came out of university, I started working for festivals and I started programming their second stages and their smaller stages and their opening artists and oh my God, some of the calibre of artists that were reaching out to me, I was offering them, I could only offer 50 pound, which was insane because the festival was earning, was making hundreds of thousands, but that’s neither here nor there. But I was allowed to offer 50 quid to these artists. And there were bands like full bands going, oh please, please, we’ll do it, we’ll take it. And I’m like, you’re losing, you’re gonna lose like a grand. You’re gonna lose a grand to play in a gazebo the wrong side of the festival.

Russell Phillips [01:11:25]:
But they would need it. But they, but to them, they needed it because they had to be on that poster because that was their next opportunity, was why.

Melody Moore [01:11:32]:
So what, how does sonar presents work? What is your, you know, what’s your kind of core offer? I suppose.

Russell Phillips [01:11:41]:
Yeah. So for the, for the, for the layperson, for say you and me, who just wants to go listen to music, you can go onto the website and an app is in development, but they take time and a lot of money. But so currently we’re on a website, it’s www.sonarpresents.com and there is an embedded player on this. What you’re able to do is just put in using the drop down menu, you can choose a genre of music that you like, you can even put in what you’re doing. So if you are working in the office, you can put in office or easy listening or something like that and it will put together a playlist that have been selected by humans, by us and our team and it will put together a playlist of independent artists, of emerging artists, of up and coming musicians and it will give you a playlist and it will just play and it’ll play in the background and realistically you’ll probably zone in and out a little bit and when you zone back in you’ll go, oh my God, I love this. Who is it? And when you open up the website again, you can look down and it will tell you who they are, it gives a bit of a bio about them, it gives all their links and from next year onwards it’s going to give them all of their live dates as well. So you’ll be able to immediately connect with that musician, with that artist from an artist side of things. We offer now we’re going to be offering consultations and help.

Russell Phillips [01:13:18]:
We are looking at putting on some writers retreats and some collaborations, both online and offline. And we’ve just started Sonar presents Live. So we are now doing tours, which is very exciting. So our first one is actually at the end of October and into the early November. So I’m not quite sure when this.

Melody Moore [01:13:39]:
Is going out soon, so it’ll be perfect timing.

Russell Phillips [01:13:43]:
Oh, perfect. Cool. So there’ll still be tickets available.

Melody Moore [01:13:47]:
I know. So where will they go again? Sonar presents the informations on that website.

Russell Phillips [01:13:53]:
It is, yeah. So we’ve got a live tab and we’re doing that and we’re doing an EP launch in London as well for a band. And there’s some really exciting things moving forward. So. Yeah, there’s some really exciting things moving forward as well.

Melody Moore [01:14:09]:
I’m very excited by that. I think I. You’re. Because I was looking on your website as you do and I was like, oh, they’re coming to London. I think I need to go and watch some live music. I haven’t watched any live music in ages, so. Well, other than being at Ideas Fest and watching whatever her name was from a comic kitten.

Russell Phillips [01:14:28]:
Oh, yes. Yeah.

Melody Moore [01:14:29]:
I can’t remember her name. Not quite my taste in music. Brilliant. I’m just going to ask you quickly then a few of my sort of quick fire questions that I always ask my guests. So in terms of books, any books that you would recommend?

Russell Phillips [01:14:51]:
Well, apart from yours, obviously. Obviously. Okay, look, honestly, I would genuinely just say go and read. That’s the teacher in me saying, just go, read, read. Just read anything and everything. But in terms of anything that actually helps, I genuinely think reading about the people who are in whatever industry that you aspire to be in or want to be in or anything that’s adjacent. And if you’re at the top of the food chain, read something from somebody beneath below you, in a position below you. Even if it’s in another company or another direction.

Russell Phillips [01:15:34]:
There are some fascinating people out there that we need to learn about and you need to read about. And you’ll agree with some of the things and you’ll disagree with some of those points, but it gives you a more rounded feel of your genre. I was never big into biographies. Even as a sports coach. I read a few that I liked, but I was never that bothered. I like fiction, I like reading books, but I like reading fiction. And now I’ve started reading biographies of artists and autobiographies of artists and musicians that I wouldn’t even listen to, but I just love reading them and I think they’re just really interesting to see a. How quickly the industry has developed and how different it is and how different it was back then and how things have changed now, but also how many similarities there still are.

Russell Phillips [01:16:32]:
And that’s. I think that’s really interesting. And then you watch how they navigate it.

Melody Moore [01:16:39]:
What about advice to your younger self.

Russell Phillips [01:16:48]:
Dude, you don’t know it all. You know, shut up and listen, I think is probably the, the best, the best term. You know, it’s not. You haven’t got it figured out, mate. But also that’s okay. It’s all right to not have to be dad of the group all the time. You don’t have to have all the answers. You don’t have to be that guy.

Russell Phillips [01:17:14]:
Chill out. It’s okay. It will come. You’re still young, mate. You’ve got this. And I think that would be the biggest one is, yeah, just stop trying to know everything and stop trying to do everything and stop trying to be everything. Chill out. You got this.

Russell Phillips [01:17:32]:
It’s all right.

Melody Moore [01:17:34]:
It’s interesting, isn’t it? I work with a lot of people who are in their 40s and, and 50s, and, you know, one consistent theme I see is that how much of a rush people are in when they’re younger. And then you get to a point you think, there’s no need actually, you know, that people talk about this phrase, life’s too short to Whatever it is they’re talking about. I think the opposite. That life’s too long to, you know, to. Not that it’s too long, but it’s too long to stay in a bad marriage. It’s too long to be in a job that you don’t enjoy. You know, actually, because we have, if we’re lucky, we spend a lot of time doing work, doing whatever, and we have plenty of time to do all the different things that we might want to do.

Russell Phillips [01:18:19]:
Exactly. And people say, do what you love in terms of work. But what we all forget is actually there’s a lot of things that you will love outside of work as well. So it’s almost. Yeah, ideally you love your work and ideally you enjoy your work, but that’s not how we should be defining ourselves. And in this country and a lot of the Western world, we do, don’t we? We go, hi, my name’s Russell, and the first thing I’m going to tell you about is my job. Yeah, you go to other countries and other cultures and they say, hi, I’m Russell, and my favourite thing is hockey. And I am you know, I have a dog and I go surfing and I love it.

Russell Phillips [01:18:59]:
Oh, and by the way, I make money by. And yeah, it’s. It’s a different way of living. And if we can even just sometimes think about that, it’s. It’s a bit of a game changer, definitely.

Melody Moore [01:19:09]:
So my last question is, what would be one key takeaway that you would have for the listeners?

Russell Phillips [01:19:17]:
Yeah, I mean, you said this, that. Yeah, this series is about kind of like leadership and consultations and stuff like that. And it’s the fact I, I think we’re all leaders and I think we’re all, we’re all leaders, but we’re also followers. You know, I’ve said so many times that we’re all on the same team and we’ve all got to. You got to band together and it doesn’t matter whether you are the very, very top or whether you’re lower down. It doesn’t matter whether you’ve been at a, at a company or a job or a position for 60 plus years or whether it’s your first hour. None of that matters. And none of that should sort of determine or define you.

Russell Phillips [01:20:05]:
I think it’s just important to listen and understand where everybody’s coming from on your team, then actually think about it and digest it and use the strengths of the people around you and then also just be you, you know, know your strengths, know your strengths, understand your strengths and share them where it’s needed, you know, as well. So we’re all on that. We’re all on the same team, guys.

Melody Moore [01:20:35]:
I love that. I think it’s fabulous. Russell, thank you so much for your time today. I’ve really enjoyed it. It’s. You’ve had a really interesting life so far and I think what you’re doing now is really interesting. You know, I’m very much needed. I’m a huge music listener myself, so I think it’s really important what you’re doing.

Melody Moore [01:20:59]:
So thank you for speaking to me.

Russell Phillips [01:21:02]:
Thank you so much for having me. I love your podcast, so thank you.

Melody Moore [01:21:07]:
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