Jenny Clark Podcast Transcript

 of Melody Moore [00:00:01]:
Welcome to the Secret Resume Podcast hosted by me, Melody Moore. In this podcast we explore the people, places and experiences that have shaped my guests, those which have influenced who they are as people and where they are in their work life today, or as I like to call it, their secret resume. Before we dive in, I want to tell you about something that I’m really excited about, about which is our being free membership. We’re developing an online community which is designed for people who are interested in personal growth. If you’re navigating career transitions, maybe feeling stuck or burnt out, or simply seeking more meaning in your life, then this is for you. Membership gives you access to a range of resources, a supportive community and monthly group coaching calls. It will allow you to explore what free freedom means to you on your own terms. Head to www.liberareconsulting.co.uk/being-free to join the Waitlist.

Melody Moore [00:01:04]:
Very excited to have my guest today who is Jenny Clark of The Wild Times. Jenny, can you introduce yourself please?

Jenny Clark [00:01:11]:
Hello. Thank you for having me on your podcast, Melody. I am a yoga teacher, paddleboard instructor, soon to be children’s book author, freelance marketer. Do many, many things but my main thing is I’m the founder of the Wild Times and the Wild Times are nature focused yoga and adventure retreats all across the UK and abroad. Yeah. And I very much love it and it’s become my whole personality at this point.

Melody Moore [00:01:43]:
I’m excited to hear some more about some of those things particularly it’s a very diverse range of things that you do, so it’d be interesting to hear how some of those combine. So let’s take you right back to the beginning. Now what I’ve got on my list is poo picking as your first, first experience that you’re going to talk about. So tell us a bit more about that.

Jenny Clark [00:02:15]:
So glamorous, such a nice up. So yeah, this was my first job when I was about 11. So when I was about 9, 10 I decided that I was horse mad and I used to read the. I grew up in the New Forest and I used to read the local paper and like circle all the horses and beg my mom for a horse. We couldn’t afford a horse sadly at the time, so there was a job for someone to go and poo pick. So basically you pick up all the manure from the fields. We put it in old compost bags, so big bag. And then we’d sell them for 30p a bag which went towards the cost of the horses and they’re still, still I drive past now like 21 years later and they’re still 30p a bag, which is.

Jenny Clark [00:03:03]:
I’m surprised that inflation hasn’t hit the poo pick. The manure market, that’s an absolute bargain.

Melody Moore [00:03:09]:
I would have. I would definitely have horse manure for 30p a bag.

Jenny Clark [00:03:15]:
Yeah, well. And, yeah, and basically I went down there with my mum and they said they want a girl who was 14 or older, but my mom sort of said, look, she’s very. She’s very sensible and mature and she really loves horses, so please can she come and work here? So I used to, for two, three years, used to go down there two or three or four times a week after school and at the weekends and put manure into bags in exchange for getting to ride the horses and learning about horses and doing a bit of dressage and bringing them on when they’ve just been broken into, like, you know, when they’re quite young and then starting to ride them and things like that.

Melody Moore [00:03:55]:
So, yeah, it’s like a proper barter economy, isn’t it? You do some chores in exchange for something that you’ve wanted.

Jenny Clark [00:04:06]:
Yeah, yeah, it used to work that way. Well, I mean, it still does probably with like horse riding and stuff. You, you know, go and help out in exchange for getting to ride them. If you’re like a young, keen person. Yeah, yeah, it’s good.

Melody Moore [00:04:25]:
And that gave you then like your first. Is that. Because that’s very outdoors. You did some other things as well, didn’t you, that were, again, quite outdoorsy, you know, and that clearly has carried on into your adulthood. So what else were you doing at that time or around that time?

Jenny Clark [00:04:45]:
Yeah, so my parents ran an outdoor activity centre in Northumberland when I was really young and were both sort of windsurf instructors and, you know, water sports instructors. And my dad, actually, he lives in Australia now, but he still takes kids on expeditions, like all around the world. And. Yeah, I remember canoeing on the west coast of Scotland and camping on the sides of locks and things when I was young and sort of being dragged winding up mountains in the rain in Wales, which is character building and which now I really appreciate, you know. And I went to Sea Scouts, so there was a Sea Scout troop in the local village and they were going to shut down because they didn’t have enough sort of help and volunteers. And my mom said she’d get involved, but if her. Only if her daughter could come because they. I was.

Jenny Clark [00:05:42]:
So. I was the first girl to go to Keyhaven Sea Scouts and Brownies at the time. I’m sure it’s moved on a lot and I think it has brownies and guys, but brownies. All I was, seemed to be doing was like colouring in and I wanted to be kayaking and sailing like all my friends at school that the boys were. So yeah, I started going to Sea Scouts and did a lot of kayaking, a lot of sailing, a lot of running around the woods, camping trips, chopping wood with an axe, campfires, that sort of thing. And yeah, it was, it’s all, it’s all pretty for. I think. I don’t.

Jenny Clark [00:06:20]:
Maybe you don’t realise the impact of it because it’s sort of normalised to you when you are young. But now I realise how formative those experiences have been and how much it, how important it is, I think to get kids outside at a really, you know, from a young age if possible and just literally, you know, there’s no right or wrong way to do it. Just get outside.

Melody Moore [00:06:50]:
Do you think as well as the being outside and that influence on you, do you think there’s other things you learned from, from those experiences? You know, the poo picking and the, the being in the Sea Scouts, you know, in terms of your personality or, you know, things it gave you in.

Jenny Clark [00:07:10]:
That sense, I think as well, being the first girl there and my mum being very involved in it, I think that it gave me an idea that I could be. Do that and be in that space and that it’s not, you know, it shouldn’t be like a guys only space. So I think it sort of removed a barrier that is there that I think maybe like quite a lot of girls or women can feel. So I think, yeah, that, that’s, that was important. But then also, yeah, I started just having jobs from a very young age. So there was the poo picking, but also I was a KP kitchen porter. Like washing up in a pub when I was about 13 and then waitressing and making cakes in a cafe in a castle from about 14. And I think all those things were very formative and just made me quite independent.

Jenny Clark [00:08:28]:
Yeah, which was good.

Melody Moore [00:08:31]:
Yeah, we were talking about that before we started recording about how we both started working really young. I was 13 when I had my first job and haven’t stopped since. But I think you’re right, it gives you a sense of. I think it makes you grow up for a start because you’ve not got your parents around, you’re kind of having to operate independently and be responsible. I think that’s probably the thing. I think that it probably taught me and I see with my nieces and nephews is it teaches them to. That they have to get somewhere on time and not call in sick and all of those things.

Jenny Clark [00:09:11]:
Yeah, I mean, well, the job in the. My first job in the pub, the Cut, the Cafe Castle was great because I was working there with my best friend. We just used to listen to Radio 1, make cakes, eat a lot of raw cake mixture, tuna and cucumber baguette and go sit up on the castle walls overlooking the sea in the Isle of Wight. And that was great. So I love that we used to get a little ferry there with like all the food for the, for the day, for the. For making all the lunches. The, the pub wasn’t as fun. I mean, I think I was paid like £4 something an hour for this summer and it was, it was every Sunday, but I only worked something like four and a bit hours, so I, I didn’t even make £20.

Jenny Clark [00:09:55]:
And it seemed to be that every Sunday it was so. And hot and all my friends and I had to get in like hoover the whole pub and it was really real old higgledy piggledy. You have to move every single, you know, old stall and everything to hoover it all and then wash up all day in like a steamy hot kitchen and, and run like prawn cocktails out in the garden for less than £20. So I really remember wishing that I was just at the beach on those days. But you know, there are, there’s still worse jobs, aren’t that. Yeah, it’s definitely character building and I think. Yeah. From a.

Jenny Clark [00:10:33]:
I remember really having this thought that I don’t want to have to say no to things because I can’t afford them when I was a teenager. And so which I think I still sort of have that mindset maybe, maybe need to reevaluate my money mindset. But there was a real sense of, well, I want to work hard to have my own money so that I can afford to do the things that I want to do and I don’t want to have to say no to things because I can’t afford them. So. Yeah, it was like a very sort of money equals freedom and independence thing, I think.

Melody Moore [00:11:14]:
Yeah. Were your parents encouraging you to work or was it mainly driven by you?

Jenny Clark [00:11:21]:
Yeah, I mean they were. I think my brother also had jobs from quite a young age, but I. Yeah, I can’t. Encouraging. Yeah, but not like hugely pushing me. I just remember being like, well, I want to be able to do things and have money so I’m Gonna go do it. You know when you used to print off your little CV and then walk down the high street and go into every shop and cafe with your cv. Yeah.

Jenny Clark [00:11:50]:
And a lot of my friends had jobs as well, so. Yeah. And then all through, throughout uni and all the holidays and while I was at uni as well. A lot of hospitality.

Melody Moore [00:12:05]:
Yes. And tell me about that.

Jenny Clark [00:12:07]:
You.

Melody Moore [00:12:07]:
You mentioned hospitality. That was also my formative years with an awful lot of hospitality. I grew up in the Lake District where it’s all hospitality. Talk to me about waitressing. It’s something we’ve both done. Tell me why you think it gives you some essential skills.

Jenny Clark [00:12:29]:
Yeah, I just think that everyone should have to be a waiter or a waitress at some point in their lives, I think. Yeah. I was listening to a podcast ages ago, Graham Norton on a podcast. I think it was how to Fail with Elizabeth Day. But he was talking about how he thinks everyone should have to be a way to do a waiter or waitress, because it just does give you such an understanding of people. It gives you social skills. I was working properly as a waitress from 16, and you’re constantly sort of managing, watching all the tables, making sure they’re okay, but, you know, trying not to be too annoying, but also being there. So, yeah, I think it sort of teaches you how to read people and places and it teaches you social skills.

Jenny Clark [00:13:26]:
And also, I mean, you know, now my job is running retreats, so I run events, like a range of events and retreats, but, you know, often I’m sort of keeping an eye out to make sure that, you know, like, has everyone got water? Do we need coffee? Things like that, that actually some people just maybe don’t see. But it’s gives you like, hosting skills, I suppose, and people skills and I think is very important. And it also gives you an appreciation of people who work in hospitality because you’re on your, you know, like, working hospitality on your feet all day and sometimes people are not nice to you and it’s a hard, important job. I actually miss it sometimes. Or like working in a pub sometimes, I think, oh, I quite like to just work in a pub cafe just a bit. I actually worked in my friend’s cafe a few for, like, sometimes in the summers over the last few years. It’s nice just to have that interaction with people and, you know, people come in for their, like, regular order and this coffee and yeah, it’s nice.

Melody Moore [00:14:35]:
What is it you miss about it?

Jenny Clark [00:14:37]:
I think it’s the social aspect of it and the sort of. I Mean the like camaraderie you have with the other people in the team. But I think that that is just a thing of being a solo founder. I luckily have this amazing girl, Maya, who’s working for me a bit now, freelance, hopefully soon more which has been really, really great to like have someone there to bounce ideas off and chat to. And I had a really good intern as well and hopefully getting a couple more. But I’ve, you know, been a solo founder and I’ve been, well, I’ve been freelance for sort of six years and then started the Wild Times in 2020, properly started running retreats in 2021. It’s now three years on from that, just on my sort of fourth summer or fourth season of retreats. Done about 50 so far and just.

Jenny Clark [00:15:36]:
Yeah, being a founder can be really lonely. I, you know, I created the company, I set it up because I love, you know, hanging out with really nice people, being at nature, teaching yoga, sitting around a campfire, floating around on the water or like swimming, you know, the swimming waterfalls and stuff. And, and those are all the reasons that I created the business. And so when I’m on retreat, that’s what I’m doing. But you know, the reality of having your own business as you know, is just sort of like, well, often, you know, I’m just at home or maybe I’m working from somewhere else. But still you’re by yourself sort of staring at spreadsheets like in your own head. And that can be, yeah, like, you know, everyone goes, oh, it looks amazing. Like it looks like it’s smashing it with the Wild Times.

Jenny Clark [00:16:27]:
And you know, what, what does smashing it mean? Like what is success? But I also think that it’s important to talk about and acknowledge that just being a founder can be like really lonely at times. And it’s not, you know, as, as shiny as it might look on Instagram. So I think just having a team, just, just having people to work with. Sometimes I, yeah, fantasise about working in a bar or just having an office job. The time that it really gets to me, is it Christmas, like the Little Match Girl or something where I’m standing outside with my nose pressed against the glass watching people like tinkly laug clinking classes at like Christmas work party. And I’m like, for me it’s like, right, go get. So yeah, it’s funny you say that.

Melody Moore [00:17:21]:
I was actually this morning think I’ve got lots of friends who are self employed, you know, lots of self employed consultants. And I was just thinking this morning about that we needed to have a Christmas party because it’s. I miss that too. It’s interesting. I think what you’re also talking about there is that if you’re working in a bar or working in a restaurant is that the responsibility is taken away from you as well. It’s a very in the moment responsibility of making sure the people in front of you are okay, but you haven’t got the rest of the worry about the business there as well. So it, it’s a kind of, you know, that’s the one advantage of working for other people, isn’t it, that you, you know, the actual ultimate, ultimate success of the businesses doesn’t feel quite so much on your shoulders. Yeah, you can leave it there.

Jenny Clark [00:18:11]:
Yeah, yeah. And you know, I’ve worked for like a lot of startups and a lot of, you know, small businesses and you know, I just now have so much more sympathy for previous bosses having my own business, knowing that, yeah, that sort of being able to switch off from it or giving yourself a break from it or, you know, put putting the business above everything and above your own health and you know, like burning yourself out and things like that. I, yeah, I’m can, I’m so much more empathetic. Yeah.

Melody Moore [00:18:53]:
I also laugh when people, lots of people say, oh you know, I’d love to have a little tea room when I’m older. And I always just go, ha. It’s really hard work. People have got this sort of idyllic idea that they’ll just kind of mooch around and make a few scones and serve a few people and they don’t realise that my brother owned a cafe.

Jenny Clark [00:19:14]:
Really retire on that money.

Melody Moore [00:19:16]:
Yeah, exactly. My brother owned a cafe for nine years and you know, me and my other sisters, they’re all the family of worked for him in that time and it was hard. I mean it was successful but it was hard going. And yeah, I, I just always think it’s funny that people think that hospitality, you know.

Jenny Clark [00:19:37]:
Yeah, I, yeah, I often have many business ideas of oh, that would be lovely and that would be lovely. And then, you know. Yeah, my friend has a cafe and it’s amazing and you know, it’s always busy and it’s such a labour of love and people love it and she does the best sandwiches but you know, it’s that when the fridge breaks or the sinks blocked or, you know, and then you have to call in an engineer and then you have to wait for them. We have to go in at 6:00am to, you know, and go to somewhere to buy the bread because the bread hasn’t turned up. All of the other stuff around it. Yeah, yeah, it’s not so glamorous. It’s just like making a couple of scones. Is it?

Melody Moore [00:20:15]:
Although I did used to enjoy making the sky scones for my brother’s cafe. The scones and the soup, I used to really enjoy making those. I never make scones or soup now, but I enjoyed it at the time. So during this time you, you’ve done, you’ve done a lot of waitressing as you said. You also spent time in Monaco. You came across some people who had a lot of money. How did that influence your view on. You talked about your money mindset earlier.

Melody Moore [00:20:53]:
How did that influence your view on money mindset?

Jenny Clark [00:20:57]:
Yeah, so I used to work in this sort of bar restaurant that overlooked this marina and so there were loads of boats. So I used to also work on boats as a hostess and a deckhand and so you’re tying all the ropes, putting all the fenders out and, you know, anchoring off, taking the guests off to, you know, restaurants and stuff or feeding them and hosting them and giving them drinks on board and sort of through that I got a few other jobs on boats for some people and some Russians. And yeah, I actually bought my first car when I was 17. I did a three day job on a boat and I got paid £500 and I got a 150 pound tip and then I went, I think the next day I went and bought my first car, Martha, the Micra, a little red, 0.9 litre engine, micro. That was the love of my life. She’s probably still going somewhere. She was a great car. So yeah, I did, I did quite a lot of work on boats but it sort of opened my eyes to this other world of the, you know, like the ultra, ultra rich.

Jenny Clark [00:22:10]:
And yeah, at one point I ended up in Monaco going to like, yeah, this, I went to this apartment that was like one of the most expensive apartments in the world or something at that, that time. And. And yeah, just sort of really open my eyes to money doesn’t make you happy. And it felt I suppose maybe like grotesque and a bit like priorities wrong. And this is not to say for everyone, but you know, I think when you see that sort of level of opulence, I think I was about 18, but then, you know, hearing and knowing about some of the people and dynamics and that actually they were very lonely and not happy despite having all of this money. Yeah, I mean obviously money, money is an enabler and it can massively impact your. It can massively impact your happiness. I think, you know, there’s like, studies on it.

Jenny Clark [00:23:24]:
If you have zero money to a certain, you know, level of comfort, I think, I can’t remember, it was like $40,000 or something. So your basic needs are taken care of, so you have security and food, you know, like Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. And obviously that’s going to massively impact your happiness. And if you’re living in poverty or, you know, with nothing, that’s huge. But then there becomes like a. Over a certain amount where it doesn’t really impact your happiness. And so I think it’s just an important thing to remember when you’re looking at what am I working towards and what am I striving towards and like, what do I want? You know, what actually makes you happy? Years ago I did this exercise when I was at this event, just writing down my dream day or what my perfect day looks like in five years time. Like, what would be my perfect day in five years time? And I wrote it down, it was like, you know, what are you wearing, what are you eating, who are you with? Blah, blah, blah.

Jenny Clark [00:24:27]:
And I was like, well, for me it would be having a picnic or a barbecue on the beach with my family and friends, you know, bottle of wine, some crisps and dip. And writing it down sort of made me realise that, wait, I already have those days and I can already have those days. And actually those days don’t really cost you any money apart from cost of crisps and wine. So I think it’s important to sort of sometimes step back and be like, wait, what am I working towards? Or what am I doing? Not that there’s any danger of me becoming a billionaire and buying somewhere in Monica anytime soon, but I think, yeah, for all of us, like, you know, money is an enabler and. But it doesn’t. It’s not the be all and end all and actually write down your perfect day. And it’s probably going to be hanging out with the people that you love. And actually you hopefully could do that, you know, pretty soon.

Jenny Clark [00:25:34]:
And so that’s good. Be in the. Be it sort of in the moment with that and like, grateful for that rather than striving towards this thing that, you know, maybe doesn’t exist.

Melody Moore [00:25:47]:
How do you balance that with. Or balance is the wrong word, but how do you kind of think about that when you think of your business and how much you want to earn from your business? How much you, you know, because there’s you, you and I will both be in this world where you constantly hear people talking about, I have a six figure business, I have a seven figure business, you can, yeah, blah, blah, blah. And you know, my, my view is you can, you have to make a choice in terms of how much of your life you’re willing to give up in order to achieve certain things. And I’m just curious as to your thoughts on, on kind of income, hard work, how much of your life you lose, etc.

Jenny Clark [00:26:43]:
Yeah, I do not have all the answers. And I think that work life balance is some sort of myth made up by someone to make us feel bad. I don’t know, it’s that thing about like, I think that you juggle. Everyone juggles a lot. And there’s work and there’s relationships and friendships and family and, you know, exercise and all of these things that we’re constantly all trying to like tick all the boxes and make sure that we’ve, I don’t know, done all the things. And if you can find someone who does all these things, great. But like that, that’s not me. And yeah, I don’t know, I think I, maybe I should have more of a plan.

Jenny Clark [00:27:37]:
But I sort of set up the business because I just thought, okay, how do I try and make money and make a living from doing what I love? What’s that thing like, do what you love and then you’ll work every day in your life or something.

Melody Moore [00:27:54]:
I’ll never work a day in your life.

Jenny Clark [00:27:57]:
I think it is more that you work every day because, yeah, like it’s. I’m very happy that I’m doing what I’m doing. I’m very proud of myself and I really love it. But I, Yeah, it’s not, it’s not easy, I think. Yeah, my. What am I trying to say? I think that there’s also a thing like I’ve noticed being in the sort of the London startup entrepreneur scene, which I’m sort of saying those all in inverted commas. There are people who see maybe a gap like, you know, these sort of tech. I’m really painting them with a broad brush here.

Jenny Clark [00:28:45]:
But this is not what I mean in it. I don’t mean it in a bad way necessarily, but maybe they see a gap in the market, an opportunity, and then they’re like, oh, I’m gonna make XYZ this platform or this app or this whatever, and I’m gonna raise loads of money to do it. And tech, that sort of world can be very like boom and bust or People see a gap and they think I’m gonna raise money, scale this thing, sell it for multi millions and then retire. Whereas there’s other businesses like me or like, I don’t know, someone who’s set up a bakery because they love baking things or something like that where, or a florist or, you know, I mean there’s loads of different things but they just think, I love this thing, I’m good at this thing and I want to try and make a living from it. And it’s not necessarily that they’re trying to create some sort of business that they want to scale and sell for millions, it’s that they’re trying to make a living doing what they love. So yeah, I haven’t really like, there’s, there’s not like a long term plan. I think hopefully I really ideally want to be doing this for a long time and I really love it and. But yeah, I mean for, I’ve bootstrapped it by myself from nothing, from just putting my own very meagre freelance marketing like money into it.

Jenny Clark [00:30:09]:
You know, I sort of properly started really when I was like locked down in Covid in Morocco living in a van for four or five months. And when I was there I was working sort of two days a week online for a couple of businesses doing marketing and social media and then and partnerships and you know, branding and business development. And then the rest of the time I was teaching a bit of yoga online. But I actually had loads of time and space to think about, okay, what is it that I want to do and create and, and you know, living for very cheap out in Morocco, in Covid, in a campsite overlooking the Atlantic. So yeah, I sort of had more space and time to think about it and which you know, is a real gift as well because you know, that was one good thing that came out of COVID because I think, yeah, if I hadn’t have had that time and space and less sort of financial pressure, I maybe wouldn’t have been able to set this up.

Melody Moore [00:31:14]:
Yeah, tell us a bit about what you were doing before that. So you, you were in that kind of startup world, weren’t you? You were in as the startup life in East London is what I’ve got on the notes here. Tell us a bit about that and that, you know, because you got into marketing, that kind of thing.

Jenny Clark [00:31:35]:
Yes, I came out of uni with a history of art degree, super vocational because I really loved it. I loved history of art and I got to live in Venice and live in Australia and stuff, so that was all good. And then I thought I was going to move to go to India and do yoga and become a yoga teacher. But then I sort of accidentally got a job in London. All my friends from uni were moving to London. I went to Warwick and really churns out lawyers and bankers and people working for the Big four. So yeah, moved to London, got a job at a tech startup thing which was very not me, and then left that and went to work for an organic skincare startup company in Hackney and I loved it there and I was there for a few years and being there in Hackney Wick, like this is over 10 years ago or now, I was surrounded by other small businesses, people like brewing kombucha, brewing beer, roasting coffee, skin care, some guys making moonshine there. Yeah, there were just all of these.

Jenny Clark [00:32:50]:
It was a real sort of hub of cool businesses. And you know, these guys who brought this amazing, amazing barge over from, you know, it’s really old barge over from Amsterdam and they were building and converting into a restaurant. It’s now called Barge East. It’s is great. And yeah, and at the time as well, I also started doing my yoga teacher training and through that I met some really amazing people and there was just some real like expanders in my life. And by that I mean they just sort of showed me things that are possible, that you can do that maybe before I’d not realised that you could just go and do like one of my friends, my yoga, who’s my yoga teacher, he, you know, just written a book and started a podcast and started this business and did that and I was like, well, how did you do? How did you do that? He’s like, well, I, you know, just did it. And someone else who just done films and documentaries because they just did it. And my other friend who’d set up an app and she’s done loads of amazing things, Nicola.

Jenny Clark [00:33:54]:
And you know, seeing that really made me realise that you, you just know you don’t have to wait for anyone to give you permission. You just go do it and you figure it out as you go along. I remember my old boss from the skincare brand saying, I mean, I think it’s thrown around a lot, but that an entrepreneur is someone who jumps out of a plane and builds a parachute on the way down. And I. That’s just always sort of stuck with me. And I do think that, I don’t know, maybe people, you come out of uni thinking, oh, I’ve got this degree now, like, yay, you know, Someone will give me a job or whatever, but actually just you just got to do it. In the words of Nike, and you work hours, you go along and like, does anyone really know what they’re doing?

Melody Moore [00:34:42]:
Yeah, it sounds like quite an exciting time.

Jenny Clark [00:34:47]:
Yeah, it was. I was working, I was working pretty hard. I had loads of really good friends. I’d cycle everywhere around East London, just hang out. Yeah, all these like, little, loved all these little cool businesses. We were right on the canal and these cool old buildings above a brewery. Yeah, it was good, it was really fun.

Melody Moore [00:35:09]:
And you developed your knowledge then of marketing, social media, etc.

Jenny Clark [00:35:19]:
Yeah, yeah, that was, yeah. And also working for a startup and seeing that startup life is sort of all hands on deck, you know, figure it out and everyone’s doing everything and helping each other out because yeah, you might be there to be doing social media marketing, but you also might be labelling hundreds of lip balms and packing boxes and shipping out wholesale orders and you know, I used to go to Whole Foods and Planet Organic and like meet the staff there and train them up on the products and you know, I went to a festival and ran the well being area for our brand and yeah, you know, talking to people there and helping develop this facials that we did and yeah, like social media marketing and. But again, I think I’ve also always had a bit of a thing where maybe a bit of imposter syndrome of feeling like no one’s ever told me or shown me the right way or the correct way to do things. You know, I’ve never worked like a big company or a big corporate where there’s like a, you know, training programme and they show you how to do these things. So I’ve always been a bit like, am I doing this right? But I think that also maybe in a way that’s been quite good because I have seen that side of you just work out and you just figure it out and you just, you know, ask people and yeah, let’s do it. So, yeah, which I have done.

Melody Moore [00:37:00]:
Go back to your, as you were talking about, you know, when you in Morocco and when you were kind of coming up with, with your, you know, during COVID you, you would be what people would call a digital nomad. Is that how you would describe yourself?

Jenny Clark [00:37:21]:
Huh? Yeah, well, I have mixed feelings about the whole digital nomad thing as I also have mixed feelings about the whole sort of like entrepreneur culture thing. I, I, yeah, so I went out to Morocco for six weeks to teach yoga and live out there. So I was living Somewhere for free and I got free food and accommodation to teach yoga. And then I thought, well, that’s good because it’s quite a cheap place to be and then I can work from here. And I was teaching yoga in a few different places, so I was doing that for six weeks. And then sort of COVID happened and I ended up staying and getting locked down out there and staying there for four or five months after that. But, yeah, the digital nomad thing, I. I think that it’s the same.

Jenny Clark [00:38:18]:
It’s. I mean, it’s also about being freelance. You know, I’m in some of these communities and these, like, Facebook groups and stuff that talk about being digital nomad and how good it is and even being, you know, just being freelance when people sort of glamorise these things and like, oh, it’s so great you can have freedom to do xyz, but actually it also means, like, no job security. I. People also, maybe they’re living in other countries because they actually can’t afford to live in, you know, where they grew up now. So I’ve seen that as well. But also, I don’t know, there’s a bit of a backlash, you know, against the digital nomad sort of thing. I mean, if you look at Bali.

Jenny Clark [00:39:07]:
Yeah. I’m not sure. I have mixed feeling. I have mixed feelings about it. I think that also there’s a. There’s a part of maybe responsibility if you’re going to these countries to, like, spend your money in a good way that benefits the local community and economy and, like, not price them out, because digital nomads are there. But also, you know, I mean, you could say that for about a lot of travelling and tourism, I guess, but, yeah, I don’t know. I’m seeing a bit of backlash against.

Jenny Clark [00:39:43]:
Against it. It’s not all it’s cracked up to be is what.

Melody Moore [00:39:48]:
I think it’s a young person’s game. Yeah.

Jenny Clark [00:39:53]:
Being a digital nomad. Well, I suppose in a way, because then you don’t have any responsibilities. Maybe you don’t have, like a house or a family and things. But, you know, maybe you could be a digital nomad when you’re older, for sure. I. I don’t necessarily think it’s a young person’s game, but I also. I think I just resent the term.

Melody Moore [00:40:20]:
What’s wrong with the term?

Jenny Clark [00:40:22]:
Yeah, I don’t know. I think maybe I spend too much time on Instagram for my business. So I see all this stuff and I see people being like, oh, yeah, you know, you Know, being digital nomad’s great and it’s. Yeah, it’s the same with, I think it’s just everything with social media, with being a freelancer, with being a digital nomad, with being an entrepreneur. There’s a really funny account that’s entrepreneur but spelled wrong. It’s like you are at the end and it’s these guys sort of taking the piss out of people who go on this podcast and they’re like, I get up at 5am and I have a shake and then I do my, you know, our gratitude list and stuff. But I think that we’re all sold this shiny version and like this is the option and you know, now be a transformational life coach or a holistic health coach or a, and you know, a six figure figure, this coach and I can teach you how to make five figure months, whatever. And I think a lot of it’s bollocks, to be honest.

Jenny Clark [00:41:40]:
Yeah, that’s, that’s just how I feel.

Melody Moore [00:41:42]:
It’s a lot of smoke and mirrors, isn’t it? It’s a lot of. One of the things that always makes me laugh is all the people selling, selling, you know, so it’s like, well, it’s easy to sell selling because everybody wants to know how to sell. But do you know how to sell something that’s not selling? You know, because it’s like a snake that’s eaten its own tail to my mind, you know, it’s just this, it just self perpetuating but it’s not. They don’t necessarily know how to sell a sustainable business.

Jenny Clark [00:42:18]:
Yeah, it’s like I think everyone’s looking for the answers and people show shiny versions of things. Even with retreats, you know, people think, oh, retreats are an easy way to make money. So I’ll do that. And from experience it’s not as easy as you think, but it’s, you know, it’s like everything in life, isn’t it? And I suppose social media has created this sort of weird place where you only see the shiny bits of people’s lives. And I always, I try and remember that thing of like, don’t compare your insides to other people’s outsides because you know, you only see people shiny outsides on social media. But the, the reality is usually never as glamorous. But I think that that’s the thing that I think it capitalises a bit of people feeling like they’re maybe failing because they’re not hitting seven figure months and they don’t live in Ibiza and they, you know, they see this shiny thing and I, I just don’t buy it all. I mean, of course I believe that there are some people who are amazing and they’re having best time and they’re, you know, travelling and doing all these things and making loads of money, like, good for them.

Jenny Clark [00:43:38]:
But I think that often it’s a real hard slog. Yeah. Maybe there’s no shortcuts. I don’t know.

Melody Moore [00:43:48]:
There’s some various people I follow who, you know, there’s almost some mixed messaging as well. It’s, you know, I make all this money and, and, you know, I go and work from these exotic locations where I’m taking my family on holiday and, you know, and you can do this too. And then the next minute they’re saying, but it’s all really hard work and it’s not all just, you know, sunshine and roses. And then I’m thinking, really, they’re working on holiday. Yes, they might be working from a sun lounger, but they’re working on holiday and still working. It’s not that you’ve found the secret formula to amazing success and not having to actually put the hard yards in, you know, I think I’d probably rather work at home than be sat on a sun lounger and missing out when everyone else is down the beach. So, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s a really interesting thing that we never used to have. You know, we never used to see businesses as an individuals in that way, did we? We never used to see the leaders of businesses on social media because social media didn’t exist.

Melody Moore [00:44:58]:
And so, you know, people were just there running their businesses rather than telling everybody else about and showing everybody else what they’re doing and how they’re doing it.

Jenny Clark [00:45:10]:
I think there’s a thing as well about. It’s totally fine and okay if you just want to have a job that pays for your life and it enables you to do things and have hobbies and whatever and have a nice life and go on holidays. I think now that, I suppose it’s like the we work, you know, thing of, like, do what you love and, and, you know, everyone wants to have a startup, but everyone wants to be a founder and everyone wants to, you know, like millennials and Gen Z and stuff, you know, find like what they love and their purpose and everything and great, that works for some people. But also it’s okay if you just have a job that you like and then you have a nice life and you do other things. You know, it’s not, it’s Also not for everyone. You know, I’ve. I’ve been running this business for like four years, and during that time I’ve lived at home, I’ve lived with friends. You know, I was living in a company in Morocco.

Jenny Clark [00:46:14]:
All those things have enabled me to set it up by making, you know, I was making not really any money, putting everything back in the business, living off my, you know, freelance job wage and teaching yoga and stuff, working like three or four jobs to enable me to, like, grow this business and set it up. And I think that’s the thing as well. If you do want to have your own business and stuff. It’s also being really patient because I think the other thing we see a lot is this, like, oh, you know, zero to 60 million in five days, like six months or whatever. And, you know, and that’s the sort of stuff you see on, I don’t know, podcasts and LinkedIn. And I, I won £10,000 last year. In December, I won the she Means Business Awards with Tide Banking and Muddy Stilettos. And these lovely women from Tide were basically saying, you know, they’re a business bank.

Jenny Clark [00:47:15]:
And they were saying, you know, just, it’s being patient and having the, like, sticking power to. Just so, you know, so many businesses fail. Was it like 60, 70% or something? But also, you know, most don’t make any money until they’re like at least four or five years old. And I think even that is really good to know because we do only see the. Oh, you know, I scaled and sold this and I exited this. I mean, we, I mean, not necessarily, you know, people. A lot of people are having more of this conversation and talking about the realities, I think, think. But yeah, you know, I have a lot of friends who have their own businesses and often it is like it’s plugging away for years, you know, so, yeah, it can take a long time.

Jenny Clark [00:48:04]:
It’s like having the patience and the. And the will and the actual want to stick with it. Yeah, it’s, it’s, yeah, it.

Melody Moore [00:48:12]:
We get these stories of overnight success, but sometimes it wasn’t an overnight success success. You just didn’t see the other, you know, five years that they’d put in beforehand. You know, it’s like people who become an overnight success as an actor, but actually they’ve been doing it forever. It’s just no one had heard of them until they got, you know, their breakthrough part. Tell me about the wild times. Tell me, you know, you came up with this idea in Morocco. What, what’s going on for you with it, how’s it going?

Jenny Clark [00:48:47]:
Yeah, so I actually with my friend Nicola, who’s one of the like, very expandery. Expander. It’s not a word expander people in my life. I. She was like, you know, you can just set up a business for £12, you just register it on company’s house. I was like, oh, no, I didn’t know that. And so I had registered the business name in 2018 and then I didn’t do anything. I sort of sat on it for a couple of years and then in like covert times where I had more space, then I probably started working on okay, what does this look like? And yeah, for me it really came from trying to combine all of the things that I love doing.

Jenny Clark [00:49:23]:
Like I said, you know, being outside, being in nature, hugging trees, you know, while like swimming outside, campfires, good food, yoga, movement, rest, you know, new experiences as well. And. And yeah, trying to make a living out of it. So, yeah, it’s been. I’ve done about 50 retreats now. I’d say pretty much all of them have been sold out. Featured in the. Had a whole feature in the Sunday Times last week, which is pretty cool.

Jenny Clark [00:50:00]:
Yeah, really, which is really exciting. And I’ve worked with some cool businesses as well, like Lucy and Yak, a sustainable clothing brand. I’ve done a retreat for them. I’m doing another one next month and like, so house, I’ve done some workshops with them and yeah, it’s been like. It’s really good as well to sort of stop and have a minute to realise that those are all big goals, you know, getting in the Times and working with Lucy and Yak and people like that. You know, every. Towards the end of every year I sort of write a bit of a goal vision, mind map and just, you know, how much money would I like to make that? Those are all sort of very if, if and if numbers that we’re not quite there yet. But, you know, who would I like to work with and where do I want to be and you know, how many retreats do I want to do and what countries do I want to go to and things like that.

Jenny Clark [00:50:52]:
And yeah, it’s been really cool to work with some of those people and, and you know, be featured in like the Guardian, the Times and stuff and the Independent and things like that. So, yeah, and I love it. I truly really love it and I feel very happy and proud that I am like doing something that I love and I do believe has a really positive impact on people. You know, I really get to see it on the retreats and it’s really focused on like rest and teaching people how to calm down. And often they arrive, you know, apprehensive and they might have had a really long journey and they’re all sort of fidgety and a bit like, you know, what, what am I coming to? And then seeing the change in them after, you know, just being in fresh air and physical exercise and doing some of the more, you know, the slower types of yoga we do like yin yoga and yoga nidra and the meditation and sound baths and you know, shifting down into the parasympathetic nervous system and like slowing down and yeah, seeing the transformation in them at the end is like really, really lovely. And I also really encourage people to like get out of their comfort zone as well. And you know, so it’s sort of focused on rest but also adventure and also whatever that looks like to them. You know, it might be that just coming on the retreat is far enough of their comfort zone and that’s fine, you know, well done.

Jenny Clark [00:52:24]:
You’ve tick that box might be swimming in a waterfall, it might be, you know, doing a three legged dog on a paddle board, you know, like whatever, whatever it looks like to you. So yeah, and I, I just, I think that being in nature is. And also, you know, remembering that we are nature, but being in nature is the most healing thing for me and you know, I’ve never felt worse after going for a walk, you know, like outside and looking at trees and looking at the sea and looking at horizons and. Yeah, and it’s really nice as well to see people when, you know, when they’re tired at the end of a day on a retreat. But it’s that actual sort of physical fresh air. I’ve done loads of stuff tiredness rather than maybe like mentally wired and frazzled, which, you know, often I think we can get from sitting inside working on screens and laptops and when we’re sort of, you know, overwhelmed but frazzled, you know, the physical fresh air tiredness is a way better.

Melody Moore [00:53:26]:
So the people who come on your retreats, do they come on their own? Do they come with friends? What, what’s most, what do most of your clients do?

Jenny Clark [00:53:36]:
A lot come by them. Yeah, a lot come by themselves. I’d say it really depends, but usually at least 50% come by themselves, if not more. It sort of varies retreat to retreat, but you know, we have like couples that come mother, daughter, father, daughter, friends, you know, sometimes groups of friends or just two friends. But yeah, a lot of People come by themselves and for a lot of them, often it’s the first thing they’ve ever done by themselves. And also it’s really nice. I get people coming as a birthday present to themselves or that someone else has bought for them. So my retreat in the Lake District last week, I had two women who were there as a sort of 60th birthday present.

Jenny Clark [00:54:26]:
One her sons had bought for her and it was the first thing she’d done by herself and the other had come with a friend. And so I, you know, got them a call in the caterpillar cake. We all wrote them a postcard and stuff and sang Happy Birthday and that was really nice. But, you know, and I also have a massive age range as well. I’ve had from teenagers up to 79, has been my currently my oldest guest. Had three ladies with 75 last week. And that’s also really nice to have this sort of big age and experience and, you know, variety and like life variety and really it, you know, can create some really interesting conversations. And I think that’s one of the things that people are surprised that they enjoyed so much as meeting and having really interesting, nice open chats with other people.

Jenny Clark [00:55:18]:
Yeah.

Melody Moore [00:55:19]:
One of the challenges that people I know who either run retreats or thinking of running retreats have, and it very much goes back to the business side, is that there can be quite a substantial financial outlay before you’ve even got any clients booked on because you’re having to reserve accommodation. You know, venues have crushingly long cancellation policies often. What’s your approach to thoughts on that?

Jenny Clark [00:55:57]:
What is my approach? I just think that I’ve never really thought to hard about these things and I just basically like go for it and I just then figure it out. I mean, what. I was pretty lucky in my first year that one of my venues, literally their deposit was like £200, which is really unheard of. And so that was quite like, I guess, you know, that took a bit of worry away about that. But I’m. I think I’m just not a very cautious person in that way. I just sort of like go for it and think, well, I’ll figure it out sort of thing. You know, some retreats I have made a loss, you know, one I had to cancel because there was an earthquake in Morocco, you know, I had to cancel it a few days before and luckily, you know, quite a few of the guests moved on to a later date with me.

Jenny Clark [00:56:54]:
I had earlier this year, you know, semi refunded and stuff, sort of like sorted out but yeah, things like that do come up and happen. And then, you know, I lost money on that and lost all of that, you know, income I thought I was gonna make. But also, you know, there’s been a natural disaster in our country and then I’ve since been donating and working with some charities out there. But yeah, things, I don’t know, things happen. Especially when you run events, businesses, you know, a lot. There can be many variables and all sorts of things. But yeah, I think I, I mean also for the first couple of years because I was not giving myself the pressure of taking any money out of the business because I was living off my income from my other jobs. I just put everything back in.

Jenny Clark [00:57:54]:
So, you know. Yeah, I did have pretty big outlays at the, the start. Like had to buy all my paddle boards and all the paddle boarding equipment, all the bodies and you know, and then I’ve been sort of building up my kit and things and all my yoga bolsters and mats and blankets and blocks and you know.

Melody Moore [00:58:10]:
Yeah, they’re really heavy and expensive. Yes.

Jenny Clark [00:58:14]:
I have 20. Yeah. And, and, and I can carry four max at a time and I live in a second floor flat in London so I didn’t really think that through for storage and you really need them.

Melody Moore [00:58:27]:
For yoga, don’t you? I do, I love yoga. But yeah, you really bolster is, is sort of essential with that.

Jenny Clark [00:58:36]:
Yeah, that’s the thing. They do make such a difference and I just thought it is worth it. It’s worth it. So yeah, I do. I have a lot of kit, a lot of stuff in my van. There more things that I would like to buy for business. But yeah, I think that I’m just maybe just not a very cautious person. I often just go with my gut feeling about things and yeah, do I want to do that? Does that feel good? And then I just do it and figure it out.

Jenny Clark [00:59:08]:
Yeah. Which also is maybe not the best way of doing doing things in business. I’m actually going to try out this thing next year that maybe you’ve heard of that. Apparently some people do, which is called making decisions based on financials.

Melody Moore [00:59:22]:
I know.

Jenny Clark [00:59:23]:
Is this crazy very modern where. Yeah. Apparently some people like look at the business and you know, work out like what’s making the most money or you know, and then they. Yeah, they make decisions apparently based on that.

Melody Moore [00:59:39]:
Who are these strange people?

Jenny Clark [00:59:40]:
So weird. I know, right. But yeah, but I mean, yeah, to be honest, like I, that you know, I’ve, I’ve turned over a lot of money this Year and also that has made me laugh when people talk about oh, I have a six figure turnover and now I’m like, lol, that means nothing because it doesn’t mean you’re profitable. And yeah, I, I’ve sort of got to a point where I’m like, okay, I’ve been working on this for a while now. We’re selling out. People can always tell me I need to put my prices up. Maybe that is something that I do need to do and look at. But I also don’t want to pry, you know, it’s a tough one because I, I don’t want to price people out and I don’t just want to go for this real luxury, high end market.

Jenny Clark [01:00:30]:
I quite like that some of the retreats are like more affordable. So I don’t know, we’ll see about that. One thing that I, I’m going to do and work on more is the team retreats and so the wild teams. So like away days and corporate retreats and also which I’m really excited about, you know like having these away days in and around London and also further afield like Manor House in the Lake District or like beautiful, this is, you know, stately home in the New Forest. And so it could be multi day, it could be one day and doing those with teams and so that’s a big like focus for next year as well as still doing you know, some of our UK and abroad retreats in like Sweden, Italy and Morocco. And then also the other sort of big project is the Wild Teens and so it’s using part of the money from the team away days stuff to fund the Wild Teens programme which is taking like disadvantage in the city kids out into nature and giving them these same experiences and you know, getting out of your comfort zone and rest and resilience and stress management and confidence and stuff. So yeah, that’s, it’s, it’s all just a whole time, money, energy, resources thing of how many things I can do at once and.

Melody Moore [01:01:47]:
But tell me about it. That’s another what next thing for you, isn’t it?

Jenny Clark [01:01:53]:
Children’s book. Yeah. So I wrote this actually when I was in Morocco and it’s called Imagine a World World and I’ve actually got it printed out in front of me because I need to give them some feedback on it but it should be coming out next March and it’s all about, I’ve just always had this thing about there are so many mad and amazing and beautiful things in nature like for example the northern lights and volcanoes and Bees making honey and jellyfish and you know, the fact that, you know, birds use like the Layla, like the magnetic field of the Earth to navigate and the stars and things like that and that, you know, if you saw it on Avatar or like in a fantasy novel, all these things about Earth, you’d think it was made up, but actually it’s real and like it’s on our planet. And so the book is a nice children’s book about that and I have sort of plans to write more about. Yeah, similar sort of theme. But yes, that’s. That should be coming out next March. So hopefully I’ll be doing some events like readings and seed bomb making workshops and children’s yoga and stuff with kids.

Jenny Clark [01:03:06]:
So if anyone knows any schools or children. Yeah, I’m gonna be doing that hopefully. Like, what’s the book called? Did you say March?

Melody Moore [01:03:18]:
Imagine a World.

Jenny Clark [01:03:19]:
Imagine a World.

Melody Moore [01:03:20]:
And speaking of books. Books. What books would you recommend to the listeners other than your own?

Jenny Clark [01:03:31]:
Other than my own. Oh, God, so many, so many books. So many books. I just recently read Matt Haig’s new book, the Life Impossible. Have you read it? I love him. I love him. He wrote Reasons to Stay Alive, literally, which is Reasons to Stay Alive when he was, you know, when he had really bad depression. And I think it has saved people’s lives, you know.

Jenny Clark [01:04:01]:
And then he wrote a beautiful one called the Midnight Library. Yeah. And he’s just written one called the Life Impossible and it shouldn’t work because it’s just mad, you know, it said in Ibiza. It’s sort of magical, it’s bonkers, but it’s beautiful. I cried reading it and I just think that it’s, it’s. I mean, it’s just come out. I got sent a. The actual coolest thing that’s ever happened is I got sent a signed preview copy that there’s the coolest influencer thing that’s ever happened to me.

Jenny Clark [01:04:33]:
Not that I’m an influencer, but. And yes, I took it on my retreat and I gave it to a few guests to read our recipe. Guests to read after me as well. And it’s just beautiful. The, the, you know, the main characters. A 72 year old retired lady whose husband’s died who lives in a bungalow, who’s, you know, quite lonely and volunteers in the charity shop. And she’s just not the main character in books, but she’s so many people. And the.

Jenny Clark [01:05:01]:
Yeah, what happens is amazing. And there’s a real sense of like this letting go of guilt and shame of a Lot of things in life that, you know, happen to many people and that many people do and you can hold on to for your whole life. And it was a real, like, beautiful sort of letting go of that and a real thing about being present as well to your life and how actually be if you’re really in your life. He talks about having a glass of freshly squeezed orange juice and how it’s. That’s the best. Well, the main character talks about it. It’s the best, most delicious thing that she’s ever had and it’s ever happened to her sort of thing. And when you.

Jenny Clark [01:05:41]:
And, you know, talking about how, if you’re actually present in your life right at this moment, you know, really taking in all your surroundings, through all your senses, really in your body, really experiencing life, like right now, how it is, really experiencing a glass of orange juice, it’s amazing. And, you know, how really being that present is better than any other, like, high or drug that you could do or take. And I think that’s such an amazing, like, thing to know and realise as well, that, you know, we’re all, I mean, you know, living in our heads and we’re all, like, reflecting or thinking we should be doing that, we should be doing that. And we’re not very present. And so, yeah, it’s a really good reminder.

Melody Moore [01:06:21]:
And I think that sounds amazing. I would actually be buying that in the next 10 minutes. Final. Oh, second to last question. What advice would you give to your younger self?

Jenny Clark [01:06:37]:
Yeah, one thing that I have always loved, I think it was Eleanor Roosevelt said it, that no one can make you feel inferior without your permission. She said something like that. And I. I say that to my sister and I say it to a lot of people, actually. And I think it’s really important because, you know, you can walk into any room with any people, no matter how rich or famous or important or whatever they are, but no one can make you feel inferior unless you let them, basically. And, yeah, you have control over that and you have as much right to be there in that room as anyone else. And so I often try and tell myself, you know, just like, love your shoulders.

Melody Moore [01:07:22]:
Love it.

Jenny Clark [01:07:22]:
Take a deep breath.

Melody Moore [01:07:23]:
And final question. What would be a. A title for your story?

Jenny Clark [01:07:33]:
Think. Something to do with making it up as you go along. Like, no, nobody knows what they’re doing, so just do it, basically. And it’s a lot about, like, tenacity and audacity, I think, you know, you have to be tenacious and just have sticking power and go for it. And also you have to like, have the audacity to say, I’m gonna do this and do it and you know, not wait around for permission for anyone to say, oh, well done, congratulations, you’re now this. Like, you just say, no, I am this. And then do it and then you become it. Do you know what I mean? Like a self fulfilling.

Melody Moore [01:08:14]:
I love that tenacity and audacity. Very good. Thank you, Jenny, really appreciate your time today. Loved your story. It’s very different to many of my other guests. You’ve had some really interesting experiences. So thank you so much for sharing that with us.

Jenny Clark [01:08:36]:
Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, it’s been really great.

Melody Moore [01:08:40]:
This was such a great chat with Jenny. I really enjoyed it, partly because we have a lot in common and I’m also very interested and going to be running some retreats myself. So it was really fantastic to discuss the challenges and the joys and the pleasures of doing that with someone who’s run 50 retreats themselves. So always nice to speak to someone who’s several steps ahead of you from that perspective. But there was a couple of other things that I really enjoyed during the conversation in particular, and particularly the conversation that we had around being digital nomad and around on entrepreneurship. And I love her questioning of digital nomads and really thinking about the impact that you have when you are living and working in another country and the impact that you have on the local economy and affordability, for instance, for people within that economy. So I think she had a very healthy scepticism, but also I saw that scepticism when it came to entrepreneurship. And this is something that’s come up plenty of times in this series and in many, many conversations that I have with other business owners, people who work for themselves, small businesses, large businesses, is that kind of falseness of, you know, you only see what people are choosing to, to show on social media and there’s a lot of hubris and a lot of pretending that everything’s great.

Melody Moore [01:10:05]:
And you know, there’s this, this idea that we should be aspiring to constantly grow and have these big businesses and a six figure turnover. 7. Seven figure turnover, whatever it is. And how actually, just because you have a turnover doesn’t actually even mean you’re profitable. So you could have a business that’s only turning over £50,000, but the profit is all going to you, or you could have a business that’s turning over, you know, half a million pounds and it’s not very profitable and actually only a small percentage of that money is actually coming to you and into your pocket. So turnover and profit are two very different things, and people don’t seem to talk about that or don’t seem to recognise that in the world of entrepreneurship. And I think it’s about time we all started being a little bit more honest. And whilst in many things I’m a believer in fake it till you make it, I think think faking success, and particularly when you’re giving the impression to others that if they just did the same as you, they’d have the same degree of success, is dishonest, really, and not something that I’m particularly keen on.

Melody Moore [01:11:14]:
And I don’t really believe that organisations have to grow all of the time. We have this slightly derogatory term of a lifestyle business, and that’s something that people look down on often. But actually, for a lot of people, that’s the kind of business that they want. They go into being an entrepreneur or running their own business because they don’t want to be working every hour God sends. And, yes, that might mean that they have a smaller business, but it’s a more manageable business and it allows you to choose what to do and balance your life and work and not completely burn out just from some kind of external pressure of needing to be seen to be earning a certain amount of money. Friend of mine set to me the other day. You know, she had. Had someone ask her, do you want a business or do you want to practise? And I think that’s a really interesting way of looking at it.

Melody Moore [01:12:06]:
When you’re someone like myself who is in the coaching, leadership consulting type of business, do you want to be going out there and actually doing it for yourself? And that was the reason I left a big business, was so that I could actually get back out there and start working directly, more directly, with customers and with clients myself. And that’s something that I’m deeply passionate about. It’s why I went into the business in the first place. And working for myself has allowed me to really get that engagement and connection with my clients that was missing when I was in a more senior role, where it was about managing, it was about selling and other people delivering. And I think to me, that’s the difference between a business and a practise, maybe, is that a business is where you have other people doing the doing and you’re managing it, and a practise is where you’re doing it for yourself. So it’s probably smaller and you might use some associates and you might get others in to work with you, but the primary aim of your business is for you to be working in your business rather than maybe spending the majority of your time on your business. I saw someone the other day who said that they spend 80% of their time working on their business, on visibility, in getting clients, etc, etc and that’s just not for me. I don’t want to be doing that.

Melody Moore [01:13:27]:
So I was really interested in what Jenny had to say and her views on that as well. And then the final thing that I really loved about Jenny was the fact that she just threw herself into things. You know, she really made me laugh when she was talking about just doing things and then actually, you know, thinking this year that she might actually make some decisions based on finances and. But I’ve just loved, loved hearing her how she just taken advantage of opportunities and I feel like that’s been a real theme with all of the entrepreneurs that I have interviewed is seeing an opportunity and going for it. So not being constrained by what their definition of their business is or what, or constrained by self image of what it is they should be doing, but actually trying different things and picking up skills along the way that ultimately can then lead them to a place of having the kind of business that they dream of. Now my guest next week is Carol Driver. Carol is a PR expert and works with entrepreneurs, small businesses, to help them understand the world of pr. So she teaches you how to use PR and work with journalists and with mainstream media in order to promote your business.

Melody Moore [01:14:44]:
So if that is of interest to you, if you want to understand the dark art of public relations, then tune in next week. This podcast is brought to you by Liberare Consulting. If you enjoyed today’s show, why not click on the subscribe button so you are among the first to hear about new episodes and we would love for you to do us a favour and click on the Share button and share this episode with one of your friends.