John Parkin Podcast Transcript

Melody Moore [00:00:01]:
Welcome to the Secret Resume podcast, hosted by me, Melody Moore. In this podcast, we explore the people, places and experiences that have shaped my guests, those which have influenced who they are as people and where they are in their work life today, or as I like to call it, their secret resume. Before we dive in, I want to tell you about something that I’m really excited about, about which is our being free membership. We’re developing an online community which is designed for people who are interested in personal growth. If you’re navigating career transitions, maybe feeling stuck or burnt out, or simply seeking more meaning in your life, then this is for you. Membership gives you access to a range of resources, a supportive community and monthly group coaching calls. It will allow you to explore what free freedom means to you on your own terms. Head to www.liberareconsulting.co.uk being free to join the waitlist.

Melody Moore [00:01:04]:
So my guest today is John Parkin. John, absolutely thrilled to have you here. Can you just start off by just a short introduction to our listeners?

John Parkin [00:01:16]:
Hello, Melody. Yeah, it’s gorgeous to be here. I am. I am so such a funny. I like. I like the idea of starting in a humorous way, then if I. Stuttering away. It sounds hard, isn’t it, to sum up in a sentence what you are.

John Parkin [00:01:36]:
Anyway, I’m. I’m known, I suppose, if I’m known by anybody for the books that I wrote. So. So I wrote the first Fuck It book pretty much 20 years ago. It was published in 2008 and. And then I got. I’ve written about, I think, six fuck it books in total, but the first book in particular went around the world and sold quite a lot and also encouraged other people to write books that have got the F word or the S word, whatever, anything with asterisks.

Melody Moore [00:02:10]:
Explain it on John.

John Parkin [00:02:12]:
Yeah, yeah, I was. I think I. Well, I don’t think I was the first to get. Because it was quite hard to get it out there in the first place. So, yeah, that’s. That’s mainly what. That’s mainly what people might know me for and then done stuff around that or, you know, that. That subject of letting go.

John Parkin [00:02:33]:
Yes, Saying it, but letting go and relaxing. And also between me and Gaia, my wife, the subject of being yourself as well. So, yeah, that’s it.

Melody Moore [00:02:45]:
I have one of the first books that actually has the word written on it rather than the asterixes.

John Parkin [00:02:52]:
They’re. They’re very rare, you know.

Melody Moore [00:02:54]:
Yeah, there you go.

John Parkin [00:02:55]:
Yeah, I think there was only. I can’t remember how many I printed of those. But yeah, they’re very rare. You’re going to be.

Melody Moore [00:03:01]:
Yeah.

John Parkin [00:03:01]:
I think they’re predicted that in about 200 years time the equivalent in today’s money of about 35 pounds.

Melody Moore [00:03:10]:
Wow. I’ll definitely leave it to my daughter in my will.

John Parkin [00:03:13]:
I would. Yeah.

Melody Moore [00:03:16]:
So let’s. Well, I guess you know, that would suggest perhaps to listeners that I may have known you for a long time. I have known you for a long time. I think I came on my first retreat and I think it was called a retreat at that time and to. May have been 2007, I’m thinking so a while ago. So yeah, I’ve known you for a long time and I’m really excited to. To talk through some of this stuff. Some of this stuff I know about you.

Melody Moore [00:03:48]:
Some of this stuff I really don’t. So I think it’s.

John Parkin [00:03:51]:
That’s we must spend many kind of lunches and dinners together, which is on retreat or whatever. You’ve joined us.

Melody Moore [00:03:59]:
All we do is eat.

John Parkin [00:04:00]:
Yeah, mainly eat and chat and laugh and. Yeah, it’s funny because when, when I was thinking about this I thought. Actually I’m guessing well, both Melody and. Not many, many people wouldn’t know about some of these things that I. That you’ve invited me to dig into kind of roots of. Yeah. What who I am and what I do and my approach to business really. So.

John Parkin [00:04:25]:
So it’s been a really interesting exercise. So yeah, there’s going to be surprises in here. Maybe for me. Maybe. Maybe you. You drag out for me stuff that even I didn’t know.

Melody Moore [00:04:35]:
Well, let’s hope so. So let’s start right back at the beginning. I think you and I are a similar age. Your childhood in the 70s.

John Parkin [00:04:46]:
About 15 years younger than me.

Melody Moore [00:04:48]:
Well, yes, obviously I look it, but.

John Parkin [00:04:53]:
You say exactly how I’m. I’m. I’m closing on 60. I’m 57 now.

Melody Moore [00:04:58]:
Okay.

John Parkin [00:04:58]:
And so the sick. The 60 is there. Yeah.

Melody Moore [00:05:01]:
Yes.

John Parkin [00:05:01]:
They say it feels really old.

Melody Moore [00:05:03]:
Well, I’m 54 in January and I, I was thinking about that the other day. Thinking Is that mid-50s then? That was my initial thought. I guess it must be.

John Parkin [00:05:14]:
It’s. I mean it is, it’s getting there, isn’t it? That’s how you have to. Yeah, I’m getting there. I’m thinking I’m closing in on 80. That’s what I thought the day I’m.

Melody Moore [00:05:24]:
I came across a thing the other day that was. It was in like a. A sort of self help book. For want of a better word. Can’t think of a better word at the moment. And it was. Basically had lots of little dot circles and you had to colour in a circle for every. I don’t remember what it was.

Melody Moore [00:05:45]:
It must have been every year of your life. It must have been. And I was like, I’m not doing that. It’s way too much colouring in. But I think it’s an interesting thing, isn’t it, to think. Think about how long have you got left? And it can be quite.

John Parkin [00:06:01]:
You’re going there a bit soon, aren’t you?

Melody Moore [00:06:02]:
Well, I think it’s. Can be quite a depressing thing, but also quite a galvanising thing as well. For me, it was. I didn’t colour it in, but I kind of looked at it and thought, oh, that I’m definitely more than halfway through what they’d given it is.

John Parkin [00:06:16]:
It is a really. It was only really around. Around 50, my 50th birthday or the couple years around. It was me realising that I might have quite a bit of life left. You don’t never know, of course, whatever reason, but. But I’d not really thought beyond the next decade, I think I’d not really thought beyond 40. I’m not really thought beyond 50. And at 50, it’s the first time I went, oh, there might be 30 years, but blimey o’reilly.

John Parkin [00:06:46]:
It’s funny. It’s like. It’s like a dark room that you only. You know, it’s like it only starts to get lit when you get closer to it.

Melody Moore [00:06:52]:
Yes.

John Parkin [00:06:53]:
You know, it’s just too far off before that. So I’ve talked to people a lot, quite a few people, you know, but it’s like. Yes, it’s a. It’s an age where. I mean, I think often it’s like, oh, well, that hasn’t happened before. I’ve been around a long time. That hasn’t happened before. It’s like.

John Parkin [00:07:08]:
So that. That some. With some wisdom is including in business. I mean, you’ve seen a lot. I’ve seen a lot in business and economies and politics.

Melody Moore [00:07:16]:
Yes. I had that exact same thought the other day. I was walking along and I suddenly thought, I’ve done a lot of things. Like, it was a really weird thought that I had popped into my mind or I’ve done a lot of things. I’ve seen a lot of things.

John Parkin [00:07:29]:
Yeah.

Melody Moore [00:07:30]:
And it just crept up on me. I hadn’t realised that before. So anyway, let’s. We’ve got so much to talk about, John, but Let’s go back to your childhood in the 70s. Just tell us a little bit about that.

John Parkin [00:07:43]:
Yeah. Thinking about. Yeah, things that really influenced me and, and how I am and my character. I can’t ignore this patch when I was. Well, I don’t know how far I remember back, but probably from the age 3 onwards, living in Nottingham with my mom and dad. And my memory of it is. Is really rather dark. My f.

John Parkin [00:08:10]:
My father was working very hard, I think, and playing squash very hard, so he was setting up a business and he just been made. No, I’d just been made partner of like an accountancy. A little accountancy firm in Long Eaton, near Nottingham. So I think he was very young to. To kind of take on such responsibility. He was building a business from. Not from scratch, they had clients. But he was really getting out there and he was clearly.

John Parkin [00:08:39]:
He must have been stressed and my mum tells me actually he was. He was really stressed and his father had died when he was 17 and, and he. And he was very thin guy when he was younger and he put on lots of weight around that time and when I was. When I was really young. So basically in. In those years, I heard he was talking a lot. I don’t think he was really ex. My senses.

John Parkin [00:09:11]:
He wasn’t really expressing any kind of grief or, you know, about his stress. He was just getting on with things. But then it was. It was there. There was this kind of darkness and so I felt this darkness and grief. I felt. I felt a kind of. Well, he was talking about death all the time.

John Parkin [00:09:28]:
He’d always talk about people that, you know. You know, rock stars that had died. This person had died on a motorbike and this person had died that. And he was told. I remember him saying lunch table once because he’d been to a doctor close to Christmas when it’s probably like I was five, four or five or something. And he said, the doctor says I won’t see my kids grow up unless I lose weight. So I. What I.

John Parkin [00:09:53]:
As a kid, I took that in as my dad’s about to die. So I remember sitting there listening as a kid, listening to the radio or with a tape recorder, listen to tapes of things and worrying when my dad was out somewhere that he’d, you know, get killed in a car crash driving back. So he clearly, he clearly was, you know, upset, scared, stressed, processing the death of his father in very peculiar ways that I then picked up. And, you know, there’s a lot of. There’s a lot of kind of, well, understanding that that Kids often, they, they both absorb the emotions in the family and also expressed. Expressing themselves when they’re what’s not being expressed. So I think I was almost channelling his grief. So, yes, it was.

John Parkin [00:10:45]:
I was a very kind of introspective, melancholic, almost nostalgic kid. I do remember, you know, some of my thoughts from back then. I know I remember sitting in, being in the garden, probably age 5 or 6, going, oh, those were the days when I was thinking two years before. Those were the days when we had. When I, When I was in that bedroom and, and I mean, so I was quite, you know, I was quite. It was. I was probably quite. I was probably relatively down, I think, as a child and I became sick as well, age three or four, Very, very sick with allergies.

John Parkin [00:11:24]:
So I had really bad asthma that would get. Get me hospitalised occasionally. Not occasionally, quite regularly. I had very strong eczema as well for years. So that.

Melody Moore [00:11:34]:
What was it like being hospitalised when you were a kid?

John Parkin [00:11:41]:
At some level I didn’t. Well, at some level, horrifying. I. I remember being alone a lot of the time. I remember sterile white in the bathrooms with these massive baths. So I was on my own in, you know, being injected with the various things. So, yeah, not very nice is the answer to that. At the other, at another level, I wasn’t processing it.

John Parkin [00:12:07]:
I think when you’re in pain or you’re suffering or you’re scared or whatever as a child, it’s. There’s no, there’s no time context of it. I wasn’t thinking, oh, my God, what would be like to be like this in the future? What would be like to be in the hospital for two weeks or whatever, like to come back to them. So I was only processing it in the present, but it wasn’t very good.

Melody Moore [00:12:27]:
No, it must have been quite frightening being away from your family.

John Parkin [00:12:32]:
Yeah.

Melody Moore [00:12:32]:
On your own.

John Parkin [00:12:33]:
Yeah. And I think, I think. I don’t think my mum had really come to visit much. I think from my memory my dad would come to Visit for like 20 minutes or half an hour a day with stories of gloom. I remember once he came and was talking about his mother who’d had a car crash trying to get to. So, you know, that’s, it’s. That was the kind of. It’s funny, the family, a very Christian family would.

John Parkin [00:12:55]:
Would have been seen as. And portrayed themselves as a happy and clappy and evangelical family. And that was always the idea that we were a happy family. But I experienced something very different As a child. And then, and then that through the years really was. Was a contradiction there. That underneath there are always the things that weren’t said and the maybe kind of levels of depression in both my parents. I think that was never expressed, never talked about, never admitted, actually.

John Parkin [00:13:31]:
And yeah, but it was, it was. So I grew. I grew up with a kind of a level of hypocrisy, I think, and confusion about what we are. Are we happy or are we kind of depressed and sad? Are we, you know, exuberant and extrovert or are we kind of all like this?

Melody Moore [00:13:54]:
Did you, did you feel a pressure to project happiness when you were in public as a family?

John Parkin [00:14:07]:
I don’t think I did, actually. I think my, my, My mom and dad certainly were. My dad was very kind of charismatic and laughy in when he was out there. So certainly the only. If I remember my headmaster in my secondary school when I was. I don’t know, wow. I was 14 or something and he knew my dad, he may have been a client of my dad. And he.

John Parkin [00:14:32]:
And he goes, he goes, john, your father, is he always like that? Is he like. Is he like that at home? You know, it’s kind of a bit like me. And I goes, no, no, he just sits behind the. He just sits behind the paper. And that’s. My dad was quite quiet at home and. But yes, that. So there was an idea that we put out there and there still is the idea.

John Parkin [00:14:59]:
My mum still has the idea of how the family has been, but it’s. And I did actually, it’s funny we’re talking now because I raised this with the last Saturday. Sitting with her last Saturday and I said, mum, it was quite dark, you know, when I was young. She was. Well, you were sick. There’s no, no, it was actually quite dark and there’s a lot of sadness probably around, you know, dad’s father’s death, blah, blah. And she says, she said to me, she, she paused for a moment and she looked at me, she goes, I’ve been seeing a lovely series on BBC, so we’re not talking about.

Melody Moore [00:15:31]:
Yeah, that’s not. I’m not going there. And you said that you felt a little bit of an outsider.

John Parkin [00:15:41]:
Yes, I think this is hard to understand, really. Well, I’ve clearly tried over many years to try to try to understand what’s going on, but yeah, I think even within my family, well, being sick made me a bit of an outsider. You know, I probably. I remember going into a news agent when I was 7 or something and I Must have looked, I was out of breath and I’m probably my, you know, maybe my face was red or something from eczema and I remember them laughing and taking the mickey when I was in there. So, you know those things you. There’s just some instances I do remember that. And within the family as well, I think it was, I was always. Well, it’s hard to tell how it evolves, but I was the black cheek, black sheep of the family and, and I very, very early on turned away from Christianity which immediately put me outside that group.

John Parkin [00:16:34]:
And yeah, so in many ways I was different and I would, all I would raise, I would ask questions, you know, especially as a teenager, I would challenge. There’s often somebody in the family, in, in any family that when things aren’t expressed, does the expressing and I’ve met many people who’ve played this role, the same role. So I would be the one kind of going out on a minute really you, you’re supporting the government. Really, you think that about people. So yeah, some very judgmental views in the family, very traditional Christian judgmental views that I would challenge and that then carried on through my life. So in the family that carried on, but it also then made me. And I think I’ve been very outsider since, in lots of ways, which is, you know, and then, you know, if I can’t, at some level, I think I used to probably explain this as if I can’t, if I can’t compete on that field. So whatever that is, whether it’s, I don’t know what academically or with girls or with, in, in I don’t know what, any, any level.

John Parkin [00:17:42]:
At some level where I might think, I’m not sure I don’t want to compete. Here I go, okay, well then just go to another field. Create another field, which you do. How many you hear this from, like comedians would say, you know, they, the humour comes out because they. It’s just, just takes it somewhere else. And so I think I very quite early on as an adult I would, I would find different ways to be because it then was. I was able to compete at whatever level people were competing at. And then I’ve always done that in business.

John Parkin [00:18:18]:
I think it’s much easier for me to kind of rather than like if I’m offering. It’s very hard to offer relaxation years ago, very hard to offer relaxation and letting go. It’s like, it’s also. It’s very kind of vanilla to say these things, but it’s. If you kind of go, well what we’re effectively doing is saying it to things people sit up and notice. So. Yeah. And then also the last.

John Parkin [00:18:40]:
Maybe not the last thing, but I should never say the last thing, should you? But one other thing about that period was I. I think I wasn’t really heard and I wasn’t really listened to. There was not a lot of interest in. Within the family around me and I’m not sure about my sister but around me and that. That makes you want to. It’s a. How can I be approved of? How. How can I be heard? So at some level what I’ve done is my ideas have always been slightly off track, out of the box, edgy or insane because I want to stand out and I want to be heard.

Melody Moore [00:19:21]:
Right.

John Parkin [00:19:22]:
So at some level the. What I’ve done in business in lots of ways over the years has been an adaptive mechanism from not being heard.

Melody Moore [00:19:29]:
When I was a kid talk as well. One thing that anybody who knows you will. Will know about is your humour.

John Parkin [00:19:38]:
Yeah.

Melody Moore [00:19:38]:
And you’re off the wall humour, I would say. You said your dad was very charismatic. Do you want to tell us about his humour and your humour?

John Parkin [00:19:53]:
Yeah, it’s essentially I only found my. My dad died two and a half years ago and it’s. I’ve heard a few more things about him since he died and my mum said that his father was actually very funny in company and. And that my dad was shy until probably similar times when I was born and he started to. My mum would say come out of his shell. So what I. But what I know knew of him was that whenever we. He was in company he would be joking about everything.

John Parkin [00:20:25]:
He would be hardly a serious moment so it’d be often ribbing people. So I mean, he was a. A lay preacher. They were. I think both my parents were. Were lay preachers in the local church. So in his sermons he’d be kind of taking the mickey out of somebody’s suit and saying somebody’s a bit boring. It’s like, oh, look at Irene.

John Parkin [00:20:46]:
Yeah, Irene, have you sorted your hair out? Yeah, it’s like. It was like. Yeah. I remember sending my. To one of my. My great uncle, he turned up at some family event in a suit that was probably 20 years, maybe even older and he’d kind of go, love the suit. Can’t remember his name, Alf. This is your Chairman Mao suit.

John Parkin [00:21:08]:
So he does find these things and it would be, you know, there would then be a tension there because obviously some people are going to find with other people on. And so he had. But he was very funny and that’s some really. You know, he would tell jokes and he would always. So he was known as a very warm, ebullient, charismatic guy and it was not. It was nice to have him in a room, I think, and people really felt that. And that’s what we grew up with. And then at home he’d be lying on the sofa, not saying anything a bit kind of.

John Parkin [00:21:40]:
So. But then I, as being quite a serious kid and a relatively serious teenager, probably this then was also bubbling away within me and, and, and I suppose that seeing life in a different. In a. In a slightly humorous way was there for a long. Has been there for a long time. And then what do you think, Trick.

Melody Moore [00:22:06]:
If you were like, do you think it was always there when you were younger? This, the, the humour, you’re like, why, why did it suddenly start coming out, do you think?

John Parkin [00:22:15]:
I’ve never thought about this, to be honest. And it’s funny. As I look back, I honestly don’t know whether I. Oh, man, I can’t, I can’t. I think as a kid I was in very. The opposite of seeing life in a humorous way. Maybe as a teenager it started to, but I don’t. I actually don’t know when this side of me really emerged.

John Parkin [00:22:41]:
Probably as a teenager starting to feel a little bit better about things and yes, it feels like it’s. It feels to me like it’s really deep within me. But then when I look back to when I was very young, I don’t think it was there. So it’s a. It’s a very interesting to think about for me, but. But it was certainly there as I went out into the world, you know, at university, that, that side of me was really, really there and the more relaxed always, you know, my obsession is relaxation. The more relaxed I was and am then, the funnier I would find things and the funnier I’d be in company.

Melody Moore [00:23:22]:
So maybe you weren’t so relaxed when you were younger and therefore the, the funny didn’t come out.

John Parkin [00:23:27]:
I really. I think that’s. Yeah. Even at school. Yeah, it was a very. I went to a very serious secondary school. It was really strict and I was like. So it was like a lot of fear.

John Parkin [00:23:38]:
Yeah. Intention having to, you know, do very well. So that was, yeah, awful actually. So, yeah, it was. It feels like for many, many reasons that was pushed, pushed down, but. So it was lovely. It was lovely. And kind of.

John Parkin [00:23:54]:
Even my early jobs, there wasn’t much, much of an opportunity for humour. But once I Started I basically went into the advertising industry at around, don’t know what age, 26 or something. And by then finally doing what I wanted and being creative. I was a creative, a copywriter and we got into an agency that was a really fantastic agency. One of the best advertising agencies at the time in the world, I reckon, really was famous at the time for doing Tango. Anybody of a certain age would know what the Tango was about in the 1990s. You’ve been tangoed, you’ve been tangier. Yeah.

John Parkin [00:24:33]:
And so in this amazing agency with fantastic, creative, intelligent people and it was like then I was already able to be myself and it felt like being myself. It’s like just having silly stupid ideas a lot of the time, but with intelligence behind it and having a laugh a lot of the time as well. With teams. Yeah.

Melody Moore [00:24:55]:
I’m interested in the creative processing and agency. Like how did ideas come about? How. How did you know? How did the Tango idea come about? Which is.

John Parkin [00:25:10]:
Yeah.

Melody Moore [00:25:11]:
Nuts, frankly.

John Parkin [00:25:12]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s. I mean, traditionally advertising agencies kind of protect the creatives. So they’re on a separate floor, they’re in their own little offices, glass offices. And they’re then only really talking to creative directors and having. So it’s a kind of very insular thing. And then it’s. And creatives with professional creators, which is what we were and probably what I am, will then often not talk about how that process works because it’s.

John Parkin [00:25:42]:
They don’t want. If they think. They think they work it out, they’ll break it somehow. I wasn’t like that. And I used to talk to. There’s a. There was a guy basically going to lecture at Southampton University. I think this guy’s still there.

John Parkin [00:25:53]:
And he’d come in, he’d go around to creators. A very few creators want to speak to him. But then try and analyse exactly this question. How does it work? What do you do? And for me. So I was very interested from an early, you know, early on, what is going on here. I’m happy to work it out. And for me it was relaxation. The more I relaxed and so you’d have.

John Parkin [00:26:09]:
It’s like you put all the stuff in, you put the brief in, you put all the information in and just kind of effectively hang out. Which was why there were many before kind of Google and everything. There were pool tables and whatever in. In creative areas and advertising agencies in London at least. So it’s. And I used to think then that every. Everybody, if they had the time and were able to relax Everybody could be creative. And I’m not sure whether that’s actually.

John Parkin [00:26:36]:
Yeah, I’m not sure whether that’s true. I’ve met people who find it very, very hard to be creative.

Melody Moore [00:26:41]:
But, but do they also find it hard to relax?

John Parkin [00:26:45]:
Yes, yes, they do. But even, I’m guessing even when they’re relaxed there’s some people that find it difficult. But I think for many of us, if we can relax enough and put the kind of what we. What I. We would have called the kind of client brain, which is like, okay, how’s now I need to make the logo bigger. Need to do that. I need to make sure the brief is absolutely. Well, as long as they’re saying the right things.

John Parkin [00:27:05]:
A lot of adverts that you see now, I haven’t seen. You don’t see that many. But I’m seeing more and more now as they appear on freaking whatever everywhere. Yeah. They’re reappearing, aren’t they?

Melody Moore [00:27:15]:
Yeah.

John Parkin [00:27:15]:
Netflix, we’re being re battered by advertising. They’re basically the brief in the voiceover. So you, you, if you. It’s like you can listen to it because people aren’t watching everything, so you basically hear. So they’re not that. Most adverts are not that creative. They’re not ideas. They’re just almost like the creative.

John Parkin [00:27:33]:
Like this is what this is.

Melody Moore [00:27:34]:
Yeah.

John Parkin [00:27:35]:
But we come from an era when it was a different, a different world.

Melody Moore [00:27:37]:
Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And funnily enough, I looked up the tango adverts the other day. Nothing to do with you, it was something else. I was like, these are bonkers. That’s what reminded me that really how crazy they. What I found. And it’s really interesting you say that about relaxation and creativity is. It was an unexpected consequence for me of leaving my very, very busy corporate job and working for myself and having much more time, much less stress, you know, just very.

Melody Moore [00:28:11]:
My creativity’s gone through the roof. Like I did not expect that at all. But I have too many ideas now and like before I would, you know, I would say my creat. He was probably at 2 out of 10 and now it’s a sort of 9 out of 10 in terms of ideas. And it absolutely is to do with just. I think it’s partly being more relaxed and it’s partly having more time to take in more inspiration.

John Parkin [00:28:39]:
Yes.

Melody Moore [00:28:40]:
So I can listen to more things, read more things, watch more things, engage in stuff and then I’ll be doing whatever and these ideas will just pop out. Like I’ve taken to having I’ve got a notebook in the car, in the glove compartment of the car. I’m often leaving myself notes on my phone. You know, I’m constantly texting myself like, because they pop up wherever, don’t they? Quite often for me walking the dog. But yeah, it’s, it’s. There was no space for it previously and, and it’s, it’s radically different now.

John Parkin [00:29:14]:
That’s great. I mean you say there’s no, there was no space for it at some level because the logical left is. Left brain is the kind of logical language, planning future, past side of the brain. And then we used to talk, actually early days of it, we used to talk about it being effectively a bridge from the left brain to the right brain. When you say it, you say it to that form of thinking, the logical thinking. You go to the right side of the brain. The right side of the brain tends to be more present, it’s more open, it’s playful, is about being relaxed. It’s more in touch with spirituality.

John Parkin [00:29:49]:
It’s intuitive kind of just hanging out basically just people like. It’s like beanbags on the right hand side of the brain. Yeah.

Melody Moore [00:29:56]:
It’s like hanging out with yourself, isn’t it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

John Parkin [00:30:00]:
So exactly what you say, you, you. Yeah. Had more time, you had to. We have to think in a left brain way in certain contexts, in certain jobs, in certain crises in. In life that we need our left brains. Of course the problem is most people are mainly in their left brains and to be. I know I’ve made a. You know, I’ve made it a kind of.

John Parkin [00:30:21]:
I’ve recognised it is so important back then for my job and my career to be able to in an instant go into the right brain. And that is essential. I mean I trained as a Hypnotherapist in the 1990s, being interested in this. Okay, what do you do to instantly relax? Okay, do this and do that and do that. Sometimes it’s just a feeling, sometimes it’s some breathing, you know, many, many ways to relax. But that takes you to the right brain and off you go and that. So it’s less combination of knowing what to do to get to the right brain and that affects your whole nervous system and then also having the confidence to be creative, essentially it’s like I can be creative. So yeah, and that was one thing I wanted to mention is about this at the brown that time when I was finding, you know, I’ve being myself more and then right.

John Parkin [00:31:07]:
We did a. The early commercial, some early Commercials that I did was for Pop Noodle with this kind of Welsh character played by Peter Bam. And they’d say, it’s not. The idea was that it’s. It’s the pot. They were saying pot noodle was healthy. So we had a competing campaign, one with pot noodles are actually healthy. So it’s like a health campaign around pot noodles, lots of vitamins and everything else in it.

John Parkin [00:31:32]:
And then a character who was very kind of a guy at home on his cam video camcorder saying, how can it. How can it be healthy? It’s too gorgeous. So his thing was. It’s too gorgeous was the line. And so doing this. And to do that we worked with a chat called Armando Iannucci, which many people who. Many people probably know he’s.

Melody Moore [00:31:55]:
Thank you for saying that, because I’ve never known how to pronounce his last name.

John Parkin [00:32:01]:
So. And he would. I knew him from the day to day on the radio and then on the tv and I can’t. And he must have started with Steve. Steve Coogan doing Alan Partridge, probably on the radio back then. This is in the mid-90s. So I knew him, I knew him from a lot of Radio 4 stuff and the comedy that he was doing. And he’s basically a comedy godfather.

John Parkin [00:32:22]:
He’s done amazing stuff over the years. So if you don’t know him, look him up. Amazing character. But, yeah, and a comedy godfather for the last 30 years. And. And Pete and he. He chose Peter Vayner for this character. And they.

John Parkin [00:32:38]:
They were writing the Alan Partridge for many, many, many years. So I basically got to, for about two years hang out with these. The very, very top of British comedy at the time. And since really. But were just behind, we’d be writing stuff together for the adverts, would be having. We’d be eating together. I used to actually travel, travel home with Armando because he didn’t live that far away from where I lived in the 1990s. So got to know these people.

John Parkin [00:33:05]:
So. But just wandering around with them and I got an insight into, you know, the top level comedy brain. And it was very, very good to have that because I’d see that they would. They just would just be walking down Oxford street and they do a little skit. You know, people selling perfume, they do a skit on that. They do a skit. So I could see that they were just seeing through. It wasn’t the thing where they’d switch on when they were writing.

John Parkin [00:33:30]:
It was just there. There was a comedy, a comic, like a lens.

Melody Moore [00:33:33]:
Yeah, yeah.

John Parkin [00:33:34]:
And I really get. And that. So at some level that allowed me. It’s like, okay, I’ve got some of that and it allowed me to sit back even more into it. So I know what that feels like when I am often so probably maybe my dad was the same but when I’m in company then there’s some. It’s like a mist where everything I see and hear I find funny. And then I love just, you know, playing with them, rolling off really. And it is, it’s like.

John Parkin [00:33:59]:
It’s a bit like a trance and it’s, you know, it’s very, it’s very. It’s quite intoxicating for me and I can get over excited about it. It’s so. It’s a kind. So this is a. I’m relaxed but it’s an excited relaxed.

Melody Moore [00:34:11]:
There’s something very magical about making people laugh, isn’t there? That’s, you know, it’s it that I think is. It’s the right word that’s intoxicating. That is. It feeds itself. You know, you make some. You can see how people, you know, get like the idea of something like stand up comedy terrifies me but I could see how if you get it right, it would be amazing to, to have that sense of just, you know, getting, getting people to go from one laugh to the next to the next would be incredible.

John Parkin [00:34:47]:
Well, we can, yeah, I mean we can all feel it when we’re. When we’re in company and other people are laughing after something we said and it feels very, very good. And I’ve noticed, and this is a bit of the outsidery thing or I’ve noticed that a real element to my ribbing and humour. I hope I’ve tried for it to be less ribbing of other people. Yes, I’ve been aware of that, yes. And I’ve really tried, I really, really try to. To make it just funny around things and also it gets you off serious conversations when something serious. But anyway, yeah, I don’t know it.

John Parkin [00:35:24]:
The, the humour, the outsider a bit is this. I’ve been aware for a long time since those pop noodle adverts that what I like is for people to be a bit confused. It’s like there’s nothing delights me more than over a dinner table saying something and people kind of look at me and they go, what the are you talking about? And then slowly they realise, so is that it’s not just the laugh that I like, it’s the confusion before the laugh. And that’s. I think I’ve tried to analyse this, especially in recent years. And I think what I’m doing is I’m trying to replicate a kind of childhood thing of like, will you approve of me? Even if I’m going to see how far I can push you away and see if you stay with me, I think, you know, I’m going to see how, how, how far I can take you to the edge. But you still love me. I think that’s what I’m doing when I, when I talk about that.

John Parkin [00:36:24]:
So there’s, so there’s always been that pushing away element to what I’ve done. So even it, when we, you know, when we had the idea for it and started to put it out there, you know, it pushed a lot of people away. You know, as in a spiritual, in a mind, body, spirit Festival is where I first did it actually in London. And they were, they were getting letters. The organisation from different organisation, Christian organisation, is saying, unless you uninvite parkin the, the, the, the Satanist parking, then we’re not going to be supporting you because of the word. It. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Melody Moore [00:36:57]:
Wow.

John Parkin [00:36:58]:
It created a real stir that, you know, in various places at the beginning. And that’s really me. It’s like, okay, I’m going to push you away, but I’ve actually got something really interesting in this case. Not, not funny, but really interesting and really profound to say. But you’ve got to, you gotta, you gotta come with me on this.

Melody Moore [00:37:15]:
So what’s that phrase? So, no, it’s not no news, it’s bad news, is it? No, it’s like no exposure. I can’t think of the right phrase.

John Parkin [00:37:26]:
Yeah, it’s exposure.

Melody Moore [00:37:27]:
Regardless of whether.

John Parkin [00:37:28]:
No bad public publicity.

Melody Moore [00:37:30]:
Publicity, that’s the word.

John Parkin [00:37:32]:
Yeah.

Melody Moore [00:37:32]:
No such thing as bad publicity.

John Parkin [00:37:34]:
Yeah, that’s right.

Melody Moore [00:37:35]:
So it got there eventually. Let’s talk about someone very dear to both of us. Yes. Who you met whilst you were at the advertising agency, is that right?

John Parkin [00:37:46]:
That’s right, yeah. That advertising agency. Yeah.

Melody Moore [00:37:49]:
Talk to us about Gaia. You mentioned her earlier.

John Parkin [00:37:52]:
Yeah, Gaia. So I met, we kind of first met probably about 1995. It didn’t really get together for, for a while. So Gaia, she was a Italian art director in this agency. Very, very kind of glamorous.

Melody Moore [00:38:12]:
Very hot.

John Parkin [00:38:13]:
Yeah, very hot. Very beautiful. Very beautiful and very glamorous clothes and very sky. Very kind of direct and straight. She just tell you how things are. So I’d have a few conversations with them. By the way, she did stop smoking and hasn’t smoked since. Around that time, 96 or something like that.

John Parkin [00:38:28]:
And. But yeah, really a very, very interesting person. But we started to get to know each other a bit more and as quick as I can tell this story, when we kind of met, really, we were sent away on a presentation skills course for creatives. So creatives, they have lots of ideas but they can’t sell them and they aren’t express them very easily. So I sent away on a course and I, doing my thing of. Outside of pushing it to the extreme, did a little talk. I won’t tell you, won’t say the details, but I did a. A talk.

John Parkin [00:39:02]:
The brief was engage the group and tell a story roughly based on some time in your life and engage the group and entertain. So I did and I made it look like something was real that was not really. I was making it up. But it shocked the hell out of them. It was like one guy wanted to punch me and Gaia was furious that I’d done this and she did her talk afterwards on me and how furious she was with me. This is great. So that was a great beginning and. But we, over that course of these three or four days, we just.

John Parkin [00:39:36]:
We’re chatting more. I realised that we’re into similar things. She was into. She was training and counselling. I’ve always been into tai chi and chikung, meditation, etc, realised we’re quite similar. And at the end of these four days, the. The course leader was talking about relationships. I don’t know why, but she was talking about relationships.

John Parkin [00:39:54]:
She says, you know, some relate. Some people never ever work in a relationship. There’s like, you can see that they’re opposites, that just. There’s no way. Like John and Gaia. Yeah. Two years later we invited her to our wedding.

Melody Moore [00:40:09]:
But did you take that as a challenge?

John Parkin [00:40:12]:
We did actually look at each other. Why was she saying. Because we had, you know, really starting to get on. But this, there was this thing, and this is the thing about both Gaia and me in my life that’s then important in what we have done and we do in business and maybe I was even doing in advertising, which is in a family where nobody ever says anything, know that truth is ever told, where everything is suppressed, which is what I grew up in. And as I said, I was the one who’d then say stuff and, you know, come out with stuff. Gaia is somebody that is, you know, you know her very well. She’s just very direct. She just says stuff.

John Parkin [00:40:55]:
She’s very clear. She’s. And she finds it very Very easy to be clear to the point in the early years of our relationship to say, oh, you know, make up a name. Tani Tan is going out on Friday. But she didn’t mention it to me. I’m just going to call her up and tell her, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So I spent a lot of time going, no, no, no. There is a bet.

John Parkin [00:41:15]:
There’s a different way of doing this. There’s a different way. You know, the kind of diplomatic Libra and English. So I’d have without that. But I, I got. I learned from us so deeply the power of being and then how to do it more. So this clearly was there before, but I. It was almost like as well as the wonder of Guy and the beauty and all that she is that of course I was attracted to.

John Parkin [00:41:40]:
And we were really getting on. There was this definitely. And I saw it really, really early on. It’s like, oh, my God, she is so clear. I want more of that. And, and it’s lovely to walk, walk through life alongside her with that clarity and also bringing up our boys with that clarity and just, just saying things as they are really beautiful. So, yeah. And.

John Parkin [00:42:07]:
And I, at some level, I know I’ve had this thing. I used to think when in advertising. So for brands, working with big brands, work with a lot of big brands over the years. My conclusion, I would have expressed this a long time ago. My conclusion was that if you can authentically express the kind of DNA or the heart of a company authentically, meaning, you know, truly express it honestly express it accurately express it, then there will be people that connect with that accurate and honest and authentic expression of it. And you will have an audience and you will have customers. So even for example, even if a company, it just wants to make money and make profit, but they’re saying we’ll make profit for you, you will find your audience. So this, this thing, and I did notice this, I’m watching brands over a long time.

John Parkin [00:43:01]:
You. They simply have to capture the. The marketers have to try and capture the essence of that company or if it’s, you know, for us a lot for individuals doing it, if we can just express who we really are, this is beautiful credit because it’s much easier to be yourself and express it in marketing than it is to kind of create some weird veneer or sheen of something or be something else. So it’s essentially the, the being me thing, which is what Guy has, you know, that’s. That applies to all companies and all brands. They just have to Be themselves and express it. You know, even if there’s warring factions within a company, express that. It’s like.

John Parkin [00:43:41]:
Well, we’re always arguing. I don’t know what. You know, there’s lots of. So, yeah, it’s. It’s this clarity there has really obviously been around a long time in my.

Melody Moore [00:43:49]:
Life and it feels quite brave, doesn’t it? I really love what you just said there and it feels like it’s a brave thing to do. Because what you’re saying is, this is who I am, or we are as a company, as an organisation, it’s a bit take it or leave it, isn’t it? Like, if you and I found that with. With my coaching clients. So I do what we call chemistry calls, often beforehand. So someone will be choosing a coach.

John Parkin [00:44:19]:
Yeah.

Melody Moore [00:44:19]:
And I’m very clear and I’ve got much clearer about what it is that I offer. And what I offer is something that allows them to go deeper because of the developmental trauma therapy training that I did with. With Gaia. And some people literally run towards me with open arms. And you can see it. And I know in about 95% of those chemistry calls, whether someone’s going to work with me or not, because I can see it. They’re interested, they’re asking questions, it resonates. And others, they literally can’t get out of, off the call fast enough.

Melody Moore [00:44:59]:
And I know that too. But there’s something about that, real clarity of this is what I offer.

John Parkin [00:45:06]:
Now.

Melody Moore [00:45:06]:
I could do all of these other things and that’s what I used to be like, oh, I can do this, I can do that. But naturally, having that clarity is more successful for me than being a bit. Trying to be everything to everybody.

John Parkin [00:45:19]:
Absolutely. There’s a. There’s a phrase. I heard this from a chap called Stu McLaren, who’s an expert in membership, memberships for many years, and he says, love me or hate me, there’s no money in the middle. I love that and it really is true. But it takes a lot of confidence. I’m just watching. Just started watching probably quite late into this, into the series here, but Colin from accounts and.

John Parkin [00:45:50]:
Have you seen that? I think it’s on BBC iplayer. And it’s this Australian series, kind of sick romantic comedy. It’s lovely about this. This couple, but the guy, the guys, if. If you haven’t seen. It’s worth. It’s really good, it’s really funny. And the main character, who owns a brewery, it’s about him and this.

John Parkin [00:46:08]:
This. This woman, a trainee doctor, and they’re they’re, they’re coming together and they’re not and everything else but the main character. Well, actually both of them are like that. They just say, I love it. And there’s an episode I watched over the weekend where somebody comes in a kind of corporate, trying to buy the brewery and he’s sitting there being wind and dined, probably seeing big figures, the guys offering big figures. And he kind of goes, actually, mate, I’m not sure, not sure whether, tell me why this would be a good idea for me. And there’s that level of like you’re sitting within yourself, happy to be yourself, not chasing a deal or a client. Like, here I am, as you say, you know, take it or leave it.

John Parkin [00:46:51]:
And that is beautiful. It takes a lot, it takes guts and it takes a long time to get to. And maybe it takes some success and some money in the bank to be able to do it more. You know, you see people like Ricky Gervais, he’s, he’s very happy to go. He’s like, I don’t, it’s fine. I don’t need it. I don’t, I don’t need this, don’t need to do this. It’s fine.

John Parkin [00:47:09]:
He’s got enough money in the bank. He can say crazy things. It’s a bit harder at the beginning of your career, but it really does seem, the clarity is, wow, it’s, it just cuts through everything, doesn’t it? Like a, a knife through butter.

Melody Moore [00:47:23]:
It’s almost feels like the anti hustle culture of just kind of the grind and the, there’s, there’s kind of a stillness and a presence to it of. I’m confident in what it is that I have to offer and I’m, and, and it attracts people.

John Parkin [00:47:39]:
I mean, I love, I love. I’ve only learned what, what you might call sales calls. I’ve done marketing all my life. I’ve been writing all my life, but I’ve only done sales calls or learned how to do them in the last 18 months, which I would call right fit calls now. So I do quite a lot of right fit calls similar to what you’re talking about, the chemistry calls. And I love them. I absolutely love them. Because proper sales, I’ve never really understood, I’ve never studied or been a salesperson or understood sales.

John Parkin [00:48:10]:
But real sales is basically, you’re, you’re trying to work out. You’re basically honestly saying, this is what. Well, you hear, you’re listening. First of all, you know, where are you and where would you like to get to. I just want to hear. So you. You’d listen a lot. Where.

John Parkin [00:48:25]:
Where are you? Okay. What are your problems? What’s the issues? What’s the pain? And where would you like to get to? Where there’s obviously less issues, fewer issues and less pain. And it’s like, okay, well, yeah, I can kind of understand that. You play it back to that. So I see what you want is this. This is where you are. Okay, well, this is kind of what we do. And it sounds like that probably could help, you know, how do you.

John Parkin [00:48:45]:
How does that sound? If that could. Does that sound. So you’re just working out whether. Honestly speaking, and I have this. I’ve had. I’ve done such a lot in the last couple of years that, like you said, you know, the people are going to. I know I’ve had moments where I can go. Actually, I don’t know whether I can help you.

Melody Moore [00:49:02]:
Mm.

John Parkin [00:49:02]:
I honestly don’t know whether I can. And I would. Then I try and work it out. I spend about 20 minutes trying to work out whether I can help. Either they’re not for me in stress and relaxation, either they’re not stressed. They’re not stressed enough, and they really aren’t. It’s like they’re generally okay, and they just wanted to talk to me or something or interested in it or something. I want to come on a retreat.

John Parkin [00:49:23]:
Or there’s a level of anxiety that’s more. Pass them. To. Pass them to Gaia and to you, really, for the. The deeper therapy. But that. That, therefore, is a beautiful. It’s just being clear.

John Parkin [00:49:36]:
It’s like, okay, yeah, this is the kind of thing I do. I can. I could. I’m really okay. I’m happy to say I am really good at certain things. The issue that you have at the moment, I’m really good at solving that. In fact, I’ve got three examples of people from the last six months who’ve gone from that to that, just like you. I’m happy to do.

John Parkin [00:49:52]:
To talk about that because. And it’s true. I’m really good at certain things. Other things. No. Find somebody else.

Melody Moore [00:49:58]:
No, I think it’s really good advice to anyone. And people are really afraid of niching or Niching. Is that a word? American?

John Parkin [00:50:06]:
Yeah.

Melody Moore [00:50:07]:
Find your niche.

John Parkin [00:50:08]:
If you’ve got a niche, scratch it. There you go.

Melody Moore [00:50:12]:
Knee shake. But I think, you know, I think. Because sometimes we. I think we think when we niche, it’s really, really narrow, but it doesn’t have to be quite. I think that for me, was A barrier for me was, I don’t want to niche, but actually your niche could be quite wide. It doesn’t have to be just one thing that you’re offering, but it. It’s about, you know, being very clear about what that thing is.

John Parkin [00:50:36]:
The. The difference between now and, let’s say, 30 years ago is that with I, with technology, is that we. If a niche. A niche. He got me niching that Nietzsche is the. The Philosophy of Niching by Frederick Parkin. The. The.

John Parkin [00:50:56]:
You can niche if. Even if it’s a tiny niche, but there’s a tiny, relatively small number of people, but you can access them all over the world with a digital product, bang, you can spend the rest of your life selling to maybe a thousand people, but there’s only 30 people in Britain. You know what I mean? It’s like, yes. So technology has changed. Should have changed our attitude to niches as well as.

Melody Moore [00:51:20]:
Yes. Yeah, yeah, no, love that. Right, let’s talk about Bucket and how that came about. Because it’s, you know, like you say, it’s often what you’re known for and was without a doubt, radical at the time. I remember telling my mom I was going on a retreat, which she thought was hilarious, and I think probably the whole village knew by the time I actually went, because she thought it was funny and she told everybody. She still laughs about it now, you know, nearly 20 years later. Tell. Tell us about.

John Parkin [00:52:04]:
I. It comes from a. Again. I mean, actually, we’re just talking about sales. I actually. We talked about sales. We talked about creativity in our chat as well. And I have lots of ideas around creativity and my creativity.

John Parkin [00:52:19]:
I have noticed that as well as. Actually, I said about coming when you’re relaxed. Actually, I’m most creative when I’m feeling very tense about something and I need to resolve it and therefore relax. That seems to be my process. So if I’ve got a blank page and I know I have to crack it within half an hour, that tension squeezes out ideas and then I relax with the idea. So it’s not actually entirely true what I was saying earlier on about relaxation. So it’s. There’s a tension to it.

John Parkin [00:52:50]:
So Bucket was like. There were lots of tension, I think, in my life, despite the kind of humour. It’s like I was bothered. I was bothered too much about what other people thought of me around where I was in life. I was. I was bothered about. I was still not very well in the late 90s. It’s one of the reasons we went to Italy in the early Naughty is when we went to Italy.

John Parkin [00:53:13]:
So I wasn’t very well and I was desperate to heal. I was desperate to find a way to heal, you know, holistically. I just wanted to physically heal and probably emotionally heal as well. So there was a lot of. At some level, I was a relatively happy person, always, always have been. But there was also pain there and tension and ideas, kind of relatively restricted and limited ideas. So being with Gaia this time we had the boys. So having.

John Parkin [00:53:42]:
Bringing new life into the world and the gorgeousness of, you know, two twins. They are two boys, Arkham and Leone. So two examples of life force, pure life force entering our lives. I think this life force in me started to emerge, which is. Which was then expressed as an idea, even if it wasn’t the words, an idea of it, which is like, well, who cares about, well, how I’m doing, how successful I am when I’ve done this by that age. I do care. So it’s kind of. I don’t, you know, achieve certain things.

John Parkin [00:54:15]:
It doesn’t. This stuff doesn’t matter. What matters is just when I’m sitting back and being. Yeah, well. So there was a equality to us over quite a few years, where both of us left our jobs, we packed up our house in London, we got on the road, we decided to do something in Italy. We took the boys when they were one year, one years old and. And in a camper, all those things. And then we just.

John Parkin [00:54:38]:
We borrowed loads of money and borrowed about a million pounds and wow. I bought a place and did it up. It’s like we were fearless and we were real kind of, we’re gonna do this madness in many ways. But there was this kind of lifey life force, equality to it. And so there were quite a lot of it moments, even if I. We probably were saying, I can’t really remember now, but there were lighty moments anyway. And then a massive one came when we opened the retreat centre, invested all this money, done it. Massive difficulties, as you normal building a place, permissions licence.

John Parkin [00:55:20]:
Oh. Oh, it’s terrible.

Melody Moore [00:55:21]:
Really hard and probably much more complex in Italy as well.

John Parkin [00:55:25]:
Really? Yeah, no, I didn’t really understand that. And lots more. A lot. Hugely more bureaucratic. But we opened in 2004, did some weeks that we ran about meditation, tai chi, we did yoga, some yoga holidays and I was really sick. It was really hard work and my health. So I thought being in the sun would make me better, being in the countryside would make me better, being amongst pine trees. We bought 100 acres of pine trees, because I was told pine trees are very good for you.

John Parkin [00:55:53]:
They produce more oxygen and chi. I’m going to get better. You know, when I’ve been on holiday for two or three weeks, I get slightly better. So I’m going to get better being there. And I was. By the end of that summer, the first summer, I was more sick. So there’s this moment where I remember and I looked in the mirror of our little room in the house and the guest house, and I wouldn’t have been looking very well. I wasn’t feeling very well.

John Parkin [00:56:11]:
I was not. Wasn’t sleeping very well. I was quite nauseous. My skin was probably not very good. And it’s like, oh, my God. It’s like I wanted this thing for so long to be well. And I’m not getting well if I’m more sick. It’s like, oh, my God, this is hopeless.

John Parkin [00:56:25]:
What a idiot I am. Brought a family out, changed everything, borrowed all that money, sold all this, and here we are. And then I went, well, it’s not. It’s not a bad life, is it? You know, out here it’s sunny every day with the family, hanging out with lovely people, lunch and dinner, teaching nice stuff. It’s pretty good. It’s like. So I. I went, well, then maybe I’m not going to heal.

John Parkin [00:56:48]:
Maybe I’m going to be like this forever. It’s not a bad life, just kind of enjoy it. And so it was a real it then. And that was a. It was a significant for me. And I could, you know, I could almost feel the weight going from my shoulders, like, okay, just kind of live, really just live. And. And then within a few weeks, I was getting a bit better.

John Parkin [00:57:09]:
Within a few months, I was better than I’ve been in my adult life, I think. And by the next summer, 2005, all symptoms cleared and feeling. Then slow sleeping and feeling so alive and full of. Full of this life force. And it was a it. At some point it became a kind of it thing where we were saying it and then starting to teach it. And, you know, we taught one week initially in 2005, but it was like, oh, my God, you know, people just forget about that. It doesn’t matter about.

John Parkin [00:57:42]:
It’s not. So don’t be so serious about it. Who cares? It’s like. So there was that to it. And it was a. It was a huge energy and I poured that into that first book that I wrote in towards the end of 2005. But I wrote it very, very quickly initially in two weeks and then added bits over the course of a year or two years. But I wrote it so it was like almost like pulled out of this state and.

John Parkin [00:58:07]:
Yeah, very, very powerful. And then I think people just could feel that life energy from the book. So it did. You know, people were writing about it, people were hearing about it and it did start to go out and then went to other countries. So. And then we were working, really, that then led a lot of the work because it was doing well, we were doing more weeks, I was doing more talks, I asked to write more books. And then. So it’s how you elaborate the idea and it went in different directions.

John Parkin [00:58:35]:
It do what you love, therapy and everything else and brought lots of people in.

Melody Moore [00:58:41]:
But yeah, I was just, just thinking about the Internet randomly. Because if you think about at that time, like if you had been 10 years earlier.

John Parkin [00:58:51]:
Yeah.

Melody Moore [00:58:52]:
You know, like, I. I must have found you via the Internet, I think I have no idea how I found you. But, you know, that, that ability, like you say, the technology has changed things, so your ability to get that message out there and anybody. I mean, I know a lot of your initial clients were from the uk, but yeah, I was just thinking about how different businesses and people who maybe are setting up businesses now, what a different experience that was maybe in the 90s or in the early 2000s when, you know, social media wasn’t around and in the same way at all. And it’s just a very, very different experience.

John Parkin [00:59:36]:
It’s usually different. I mean, it’s. I’m used to broadcast bush media, really, which is you create a message and you send it out. It’s clearly completely changed. I mean, I’ve always thought. So that’s how we. When we opened the hill in 20 years ago, yes, we were doing some advertising in magazines, in health magazines, you know, Mind Body Spirit magazines in the uk. And it was just.

John Parkin [01:00:00]:
And the advert was actually a woman doing yoga with a burp in a. In a thing, just burping, basically. And it said like holistic holidays. Italian nosh was the. And that really caught people. So we had a bit of an idea around this thing. But you’re right, you’re pushing a message out and the. Just in marketing in general, so that we come from a broadcast era, from the broadcasting or.

John Parkin [01:00:23]:
And now this. This is two. Two ideas that you’re making me thinking of, think. Make me think of here. One is that the best type of marketing at all times, no matter what the era, is pull marketing. So instead of pushing a message out, you Pull. People are just drawn to your thing and that is what the best brands do. So that is when you create something that’s controversial or makes people talk about it or is so good that you need it, so you’re getting people just queuing up to buy it.

John Parkin [01:00:55]:
So that idea is really good. And of course, with social media, it’s changed from broadcast to peer to peer and chatting, which is really, you know, I’m not. I’m not natural social media person, but it is a quite a lovely step on, really, that you’re just encouraging conversations and talking about stuff and being yourself and people get it and then are drawn to you. Yeah, yeah.

Melody Moore [01:01:18]:
It’s different, isn’t it?

John Parkin [01:01:19]:
Yeah.

Melody Moore [01:01:20]:
Let’s move to your final thing. I want to. Actually, just when you said the hill, I just realised that people. It was the Hill that Breathes. That was the name of your retreat, which is a lovely. Was that the name of the place? Like, was it called that? Are you named like the place you. The mountain bit that you bought?

John Parkin [01:01:43]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We bought a. We bought a hill and it was called. Can’t remember what it was called. Calorecto or something. Kind of the House of Loretta. So it was effectively the whole of a hill. We what.

John Parkin [01:01:55]:
What we often do, or we’ve definitely done in the past, is we’d draw out effectively, put a little kind of what we want to find manifest. So we wanted a hill. We wanted it to be full of pine trees because they’re, as I said, oxygen. Chi wanted it to be surrounded by water and we had a list of things, probably a horseshoe shape. And so when we went to that hill for the first time. Oh, my God. Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. And so it was a hill and we were very.

John Parkin [01:02:23]:
Guy was trained as a breath worker, amongst many other things. So we were very into breathing at the time. And the trees. These pine trees breathe. So it was that. And it felt a bit kind of B movie to me. The Hill that Breathed, which is unlike a kind of retreat centre, you know, normally call them something else. So I like.

John Parkin [01:02:41]:
I like that name. And it sounded good in Italian as well. Like Olina Carispira.

Melody Moore [01:02:45]:
Yeah, exactly. Love it in Italian. Also. The most amazing place. Like, I just loved going there. Most incredible, incredible place.

John Parkin [01:02:55]:
Can I just say it is.

Melody Moore [01:02:57]:
Yeah, go ahead.

John Parkin [01:02:57]:
A Dutch couple took over from us and they’re. They now have a lot of Dutch people going there. They’re called Villa Marci. So the place is still there. They still run holidays from there and do lots of Weddings and everything. So it, it is, it’s a place that we go back to occasionally. It is a very special place for us.

Melody Moore [01:03:15]:
Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely. I think I developed my lug, lug love of swinging in hammocks at the hill.

John Parkin [01:03:23]:
You.

Melody Moore [01:03:24]:
You had hammocks all dotted around. We did and I spent a lot of time and I was thinking about that the other day randomly and how I think that relates to. When I was a kid. I used to swing on the swing a lot at our house. We had a swing in the garden and I used to spend quite a lot of time sat on that swing in my own little world. And I suddenly thought, I wonder if that’s why I really like swinging in a hammock. There’s something obviously very soothing about it, but. Yeah, but also it’s the first time and I’d come across a G.

Melody Moore [01:03:55]:
Is that how we say it? Geodesic dome.

John Parkin [01:03:57]:
Exactly, yes. You do see them around now, don’t you? There’s a lot.

Melody Moore [01:04:00]:
Yes, yes. People have them as like little greenhouses and things. That’s right, I’ve seen. But yeah, it was huge, wasn’t it? Absolutely huge. Dome.

John Parkin [01:04:08]:
Well, it’s very special. Right. You have to walk down to it. Right in the middle. We basically spread things out because we had a lot of land, we spread. The pool was a walk through the woods and the dome was on the other side under the walk through the town into the woods and amongst it. Yeah, really lovely. We had some very, very special times there.

Melody Moore [01:04:25]:
Yeah, I remember dancing in there at night, you know, just having the music on really loud because we were in the middle of nowhere. There was no to bother, no, no, just leaping about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let’s talk about presence. This is something that’s really important to me. I’m obsessed with this idea of presence and open hearted presence. Tell me what presence means to you.

John Parkin [01:04:55]:
You know, a lot of us, a lot of less celebrities would talk. I mean it’s a kind of cliche to say, oh, I need to be more in the now, isn’t it? You know, I think most of us know that we should, we should try to be more in the now and then other I probably say facetiously, well, we’re all, we can’t be anything else but in the now, you know, you can’t, we can’t live in the future, live in the past. But so clearly what we’re talking about is our heads, generally speaking. And our heads are in the. They’re lingering and over the past or looking back Regretfully or, or happily or planning for the future. So we, we kind of know what it means to say I need to be more present, I need to be more in the now. But I think most of us as adults aren’t at any time really. We’re passing, we, we’re moving through this infinite series of nows without being in the now in that way that we understand it.

John Parkin [01:05:52]:
So, and I’m. And I, I, I kind of know what is. You know, we talked about my childhood. I know. As a kid, despite these dark times. I know. And like many children are. Their brains are in the alpha frequency, actually, which is they’re probably more in the right hemisphere of the brain.

John Parkin [01:06:09]:
Alpha frequency, which is what we are when we’re really relaxed and when we go into trance as adults. As adults, mainly in the beta frequency, mainly left brain. So kids, brains up to what age depends on the childhood. But up to about the age 6 or 7, you’re in Alpha, your right brain and you’re present. So even through the darkest stuff, and I can’t remember being in hostel, you’re still present, you’re there. I said about. I wasn’t. And I wasn’t predicting what it’d be like to be in pain for the rest of my life or anything.

John Parkin [01:06:35]:
You’re just present and, and it’s, and then the glories of life manifest kind of unfold before you now, whether you’re conscious of that or not. As a kid, there’s a. And I can, I feel very blessed to be able to remember what I, what I was experiencing as a child much of the time. The kind of the sweetness, the loveliness, smells and the sounds and the, you know, the breeze. And I remember I could, I know what it’s like from then to be present. And it’s a different experience being present as an adult because there’s a conscious, the more conscious context to it. But yeah, I know that when I am relaxed and I sit back and I’m just so in meditation or whenever I am or can I know what it’s like. I enjoy being present, but it’s a constant kind of coming and going.

John Parkin [01:07:36]:
Really. It seems to be the lot for most of us are coming and going from it. Yeah. And it’s not, it’s not easy to talk about, it’s not easy to do, but you kind of know it when you’re there.

Melody Moore [01:07:50]:
I have an obsession about it when working with teams, I think. Yeah, teams don’t give each other the gift of presence. Often people, particularly these days, when We’ve got so much technology that allows us to, you know, people will be, you know, on their laptops, on their phones, walking in and out, just. And particularly when we’re on Zoom or teams or whatever, you know, people are doing other things and you’re not actually present. Most meetings, I think, would be half the length if everybody in the room was actually present, physically and mentally present, because we’d all be listening to each other and connecting. And for me, presence has been, you know, I’m definitely one of those people. I’m not someone who lives in the past. Definitely one of those people who’s always thinking about the future.

Melody Moore [01:08:39]:
So the present, you know, is. It’s not somewhere I’ve spent a lot of time, I think. But that’s one thing that’s really changed for me is, particularly when I’m working with people. And for me, the presence is about connection. You can’t connect to somebody unless you’re both present. But that, you know, that ability to really kind of tune into somebody else is, you know, a skill that I have without a doubt learned from Gaia, that ability to kind of emotionally, energetically connect with someone. And it’s. It’s really transformational for me.

Melody Moore [01:09:18]:
It’s like. I feel like a different person. It’s really, again, an unexpected consequence of. Of choosing to do something that. That was one was that ability to kind of really kind of connect with people in a way that I never had done before. And it’s. It’s so powerful.

John Parkin [01:09:37]:
It isn’t. It. It’s everything and it’s. It’s like opening a door. You don’t. You don’t. It’s a bit like I said about some dark room earlier on. You don’t know.

John Parkin [01:09:46]:
In fact, you know, I think for those of us are interested in being in the now and being present, there are times that we. We would. I mean, I will have to talk. For me, I personally kind of go, oh, God. Now I’m just sitting there. That’s a bit boring, isn’t it? I still have those thoughts around what it’d be like. So you have to get. To try to get to the door and go through it, or that the kind of quiet for people.

John Parkin [01:10:08]:
You know, my mind is quite busy quite a lot of time with creative thoughts and everything else. So to be still and quiet, which is chance to be how you get there, it’s. It’s not easy, but then it’s. Once you’ve gone through that door, once you started to open it, it’s very unexpected. What’s there? And it’s. It’s miraculous. What’s there, really?

Melody Moore [01:10:31]:
Yes.

John Parkin [01:10:32]:
The miracles of life, isn’t it?

Melody Moore [01:10:33]:
Yes, yes. I think the, the word magic is. Is, you know, it’s a bit of a funny word for a lot of people, but I think there is a magic in it. And, and for me, that magic, what magic is, is that something that you just don’t expect, that you don’t know how it’s happened. That, to me, is what magic is.

John Parkin [01:10:53]:
Yeah.

Melody Moore [01:10:53]:
Is that you don’t. And actually if you start to try and unpick it, you spoil the magic.

John Parkin [01:10:59]:
Yeah.

Melody Moore [01:11:00]:
You know, it’s like, in fact, this, I, I struggle to explain this to my clients and then maybe this is the way is that if you see a magician and you do something, if you start to try and actually analyse how they’ve done it, you spoil the magic. And I think it’s the same with, with some personal development work, is that if you start to try and understand what’s happened and go into your brain to try and figure it out, you probably unpick it and then do it and you, you, you take some of the beauty away from it or the power away from it. So, yeah, yeah, yeah, I need to work on that analogy, I think, to try and explain it to people. I’m going to ask you four questions, John.

John Parkin [01:11:42]:
Sure, yeah.

Melody Moore [01:11:42]:
My typical four questions that I ask people. Typical sounds about my exciting, marvellous questions that I ask people. First one is what’s next? What’s next for you? What’s next for your relaxation? Super relaxers. What? What’s next?

John Parkin [01:12:04]:
Yeah, we’re. I mean, given what we’ve just been talking about. Well, I, I am generally two. Two things. Two almost opposite things are happening in my life, actually. One is that I’m with super relaxers, which is why I have basically the relaxers and the super relaxers are the pretty much the two things I do these days. And working on this over the last couple of years, even more, and doing a lot more meditation and a lot more breathing. Actually, I’ve gone a lot deeper into breathing.

John Parkin [01:12:36]:
I’m much better at not thinking too much about what’s next. I’m much better at just kind of hanging out in the work that I have to do today and not worrying and sleeping really well and just kind of going, well, I’ll work that out as we go. So I’m much better at doing what I probably couldn’t do for years of going with it more, seeing what comes up, seeing what feels Right at the time. So I’m definitely that. And at the same time, especially in the re. In the last few weeks, I also am a lot clearer about what’s next for the business and what we need to do for the business. And I have, you know, lists with the plans. So I, I am very good at doing a kind of next 10 or next 10 weeks, normally next 12 weeks.

John Parkin [01:13:19]:
I don’t often work in three months, you know, whatever the word is. Stints, kind of spurts.

Melody Moore [01:13:26]:
Sprints.

John Parkin [01:13:27]:
Sprints. Thank you.

Melody Moore [01:13:28]:
It’s the, the it term, isn’t it?

John Parkin [01:13:31]:
A sprint. Yeah. So I. What’s next is. Yeah, I’ve got a whole list of what’s next and what we’re creating. But in terms of the business side of what we do, it’s just beautifully. We got it. I.

John Parkin [01:13:45]:
I mean, Gaia loves. Gaia loves explaining and expanding and exploring new areas. So at some level, Gaia is emerging and iterative and my skill is probably the opposite of that, which is always trying to simplify, not deiterate or whatever the word, the opposite of iterating is, but convert. Yeah, Converging clue. So, yes, it is. Gaia is that. And I’m a lot more that. And so I love the fact that we have a love.

John Parkin [01:14:16]:
An offering that feels very natural for both of us now and developing that offering. So mine is just really simple. It’s. It’s for relaxers, which anybody can join and it’s for people that want to be super relaxers, which is a higher ticket offer. And so, so fewer people. So fewer people can join. And then Gaia, she, her. All her work, as you know, is about being yourself.

John Parkin [01:14:37]:
It’s the being me therapy, which is what she’s created. So she has an offering that lots of people can join. And then for people who want to train in being a trauma therapist, there’s being me mastery, the being me therapy practitioner. So we effectively have two things each which feels really nice, really simple. And. And so it’s like also we’re at this stage of life, very interesting stage of life, being a bit older than you, but, but heading, closing on the 660 and wondering, you know, how, how does it work over the next 10 years? It’s a different level of. For those younger listeners, there are different stages you go through and how you see your business and yeah, the work that you’re doing. So there’s a real.

John Parkin [01:15:22]:
I’m very into the idea that we have a sustainable business and I don’t mean that we’re recycling the that we use, I mean that, you know, we’re not over stretching ourselves, that we, we, I mean I know what revenue we have to hit to generate enough money to pay, pay the people that work with us. Well, to pay ourselves. Okay. Just to, just to have a lovely, comfortable, that’s it, comfortable and sustainable business where we’re happy, where the people we’re working with are happ and we’re out in the world supporting people in a really beautiful way. I don’t have ambition for, you know, whatever, you know, the six, seven, eight figures that, that express. I don’t have a mix of a million million a year business or anything. I’m past that. That was in my 30s probably.

Melody Moore [01:16:06]:
Yes, I interviewed someone new, they were on a podcast the other day and they talked about working for sufficiency. Yeah, that was their term. But again, I think a sort of similar age, you know, it’s, it’s, it changes I think with, with age about what you want and basically for me, how hard I’m willing to work and how much I’m willing to give up in order to achieve those other things. So.

John Parkin [01:16:33]:
Yes, yeah, yeah.

Melody Moore [01:16:36]:
What about. What advice would you give to your younger self?

John Parkin [01:16:43]:
I, I’d start to qualify this question as to whether, whether I’m the kind of me from the future saying. Because if it’s me from the future, if it’s me from now going back.

Melody Moore [01:16:57]:
Me, me from now, you from now.

John Parkin [01:16:59]:
Yeah.

Melody Moore [01:17:00]:
To any younger age, it doesn’t have to be you as a child, I.

John Parkin [01:17:04]:
Mean, I have to say, I mean a kind of catch all. The catch all is something like know that you will heal and that’s physically, emotionally, I don’t know what self esteem kind of broad. You’re going to feel better. You will, it’s going to work out, you know, so it’s probably that I think I had a lot of doubt for many years that I could ever heal physically. And it was actually overcoming that block that I think helped me a lot. It’s like I got to start imagining what it’d be like to be well and so yeah, that, that growth, that, that healing never changes, does it? It’s like we’re always, you know, might and maybe this goes back to Freud with the kind of life urge and death urge. But I’m, I’m constantly, I feel very excited a lot of the time. So a lot of, lot of this for me this living thing is about getting out of the way of the life, natural life energy that’s here, that’s there to be Tapped and that’s a lot of your work and guys work.

John Parkin [01:18:10]:
I know. So it’s what, what are we doing? What am I doing to stop that life energy? Because it’s like a geezer of a life energy that we are. If we just can get out of the freaking way.

Melody Moore [01:18:23]:
Yes. Yeah, I love that. Absolutely. And that is what it feels like. It’s, it’s. It is excitement. That’s. That’s what I feel.

Melody Moore [01:18:33]:
I wake up sometimes and I think, oh, and you know, because excitement is similar to anxiety, isn’t it? And then sometimes I think, am I feeling anxious? I did it the other day and I thought, no, this is excitement.

John Parkin [01:18:43]:
It’s like, you know, gentle excitement would be close to the feeling I have. Gentle excitement is probably how I feel quite a bit of the time. I kind of almost like a cosy excitement. It’s like, oh, yeah, it’s really nice. Yeah.

Melody Moore [01:18:59]:
Love that cosy excitement. Yeah. Books, obviously there’s your own books that you would clearly recommend. Of all your books, you’ve written quite a few, haven’t you? Would you recommend one above any other?

John Parkin [01:19:14]:
I think the first book still has a lot of energy. So it. The ultimate spiritual way people want to work out about their jobs. I wrote the 1. It do what you love, which is about. Yeah. Doing what you love and a lot about kind of working as many of us work now with small businesses online. And the most recent book was called It Be at peace with life just as it is, which is probably more the most want the one that expresses most about this idea of, you know, this.

John Parkin [01:19:49]:
Just this kind of sitting back into life as it is, with the world as it is, with the politics as they are, as the, as my. You know, like at this age, as we’re talking about earlier at this age, you know, things are going. Everything goes up and down all the time. You just know it. You know, you. And you know, it’s not that we’re scared of happening. We’ve had happening by this age, usually has happened. So we know the up and down.

John Parkin [01:20:13]:
But it’s like, how can I sit back as much as I can? In fact, if we relax into life as it is. So that’s. That’s. That. That’s a it. It’s like, okay, whoosh. That sense of just sitting back into it. So books to.

John Parkin [01:20:30]:
Yeah, the best. The book that most recommend is the book I’m about to write.

Melody Moore [01:20:33]:
Obviously quite know what it is, but.

John Parkin [01:20:36]:
It’S about, it’s about the now. Actually. That’s what I’m gonna write next and the other people’s books and actually I wanted to say one thing when I thought about. Because I knew you’re gonna ask that question. So I did think about it. This is the, this is what I’d like to talk about. Books that I might recommend. Clear.

John Parkin [01:20:50]:
There are many, many I might recommend but I’m not going to do. But I wanted to say this, that I. I read both at times, not always but I read, read widely. So I read lots of stuff and quite quickly or listen to lots of stuff and quite quickly but I’ve always been very good at choosing something that really rings a bell for me and basically eating it every day and absorbing it and rereading it and I think so something that start. If you. Something reverberates something that rings a bell for us and it’s starting to work we should then devour it because you know most people have and they. It’s very very difficult exercise putting stuff as, you know, putting stuff into a book. Writing a book, it’s very cheap thing a book, whatever £10-12 and that’s that.

John Parkin [01:21:43]:
That’s person’s wisdom, thought through, condensed styled. Everything else and then proofread and everything else. So if something’s, if, if a kind of vibe is resonating with you around a. An author in this, this area non fiction or around self help or psychology, whatever it is and you’re really feeling it, I would just choose one and just read it and read it and read it and read it and read it until it’s, until you’re, until you’re embodying these, these ideas.

Melody Moore [01:22:13]:
Yeah, yeah that’s interesting. So there’s certain books that I’ve read over and over. There’s many books that I’ve only read part of. But I’ll go back and read those particular bits. Certain things just resonate and I think that’s fascinating approach John. Okay, what about a final thing, a title for your story. Now come on, I’ve got great expectations here as your marketing background. I’m just going to put some pressure on here.

John Parkin [01:22:40]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I did say that creative is.

Melody Moore [01:22:42]:
Yeah, there you go.

John Parkin [01:22:43]:
I’m giving you the pressure and I’m going to revisit this because I did write something down. But so what. What title or strap line would you give to. To this. To this process.

Melody Moore [01:22:54]:
To your story.

John Parkin [01:22:55]:
To my story.

Melody Moore [01:22:56]:
Your story.

John Parkin [01:23:00]:
Actually. I mean almost obviously is. It’ll be. He said it. Yes, that’s kind of. That’s a kind of gravestone Thing, isn’t it?

Melody Moore [01:23:11]:
This is the title that I’ll put on the podcast episode. So that is. I love that one. I’ll be using the stars.

John Parkin [01:23:22]:
I’m just going to sit because I haven’t read it since I wrote this a couple of days ago because I had thought about this. This is a lot more. Let me just. Let me just read it out as I read it for the first time in a little while. How to throw yourself fully into what feels right. Trusting that it all works out in the end is what I wrote as a more elaborate. So and that’s probably what I. And we have done and I.

John Parkin [01:23:49]:
I see our young, not young adult boys now, Arco and Leonie doing the same. They throw themselves fully into things, into what feels right. And I can see they. They a trusting generally that will all work out in the end. So that feels a pretty nice sum up of the way that I. We approach things. Just like it. Let’s go for it.

John Parkin [01:24:10]:
Yeah, feels good, really. Just chuck yourself into it. And that changes with age. But that’s pretty much what we’ve done. Yeah, yeah, we said it. He said it. I said love it.

Melody Moore [01:24:21]:
Love it. John, this has been an absolute dream. I’ve enjoyed it so much talking to you, Melody here, getting to know you better. Yeah, yeah. Thank you so much for agreeing to come on the podcast.

John Parkin [01:24:34]:
That’s a pleasure. It’s been lovely for me to kind of dig through some of the stuff I wouldn’t normally think about as well. So, yeah, thank you for the opportunity to chat it through, how it works.

Melody Moore [01:24:44]:
You’re welcome.

Melody Moore [01:24:46]:
I always love interviewing people who I’ve known for a long time, partly because I just find out so much more about them, things that I had no idea about about. John and I, as we said, have spent a lot of time together over, particularly over the last three years, enjoying many a fine dinner in Italy in particular. But yes, so much in this that I really enjoyed hearing about John and, you know, particularly about that childhood that he had that he described as quite dark and that sort of interesting sort of hypocrisy that he saw and that confusion that he felt about who were they as a family and the image that they were projecting and the impact that that had on him, I thought was really quite fascinating. And another part of our conversation that I just loved. And this, you know, as reflections in some of the other conversations. So particularly the conversation from last week with Stefan about that interaction between relaxation, creativity and, in John’s case, with humour and how that’s had a profound impact on me, having more space and more time and ability to be more creative and how I feel really strongly that in organisations we’re so much on the hamster wheel and we’re so much running and running and running, we have the time to sit back and relax and take in additional information, seek out alternative points of view and really allow ourselves to flow and to come up with truly creative ideas. The third thing that I loved about the conversation with John was this conversation that we had about this sort of anti hustle culture. There’s so much of it about, particularly on social media at the moment, particularly in the entrepreneurship world, about, you know, everybody should hustle and grind and it’s all about success and, you know, six figure businesses, seven figure businesses and a lot about pushing.

Melody Moore [01:27:02]:
And John and I share this belief that actually it’s much more about relaxing into it. And this idea of this is what I’ve got to offer, this is who I am and you can take it or leave it. And I think that you put out a certain energy and that energy attracts or reflects or deflects rather the people who shouldn’t be working with you or you don’t want to work with them. So I’m a great believer that if we’re, if we’re really clear about who we are and what it is that we’ve got to offer, and let’s not pretend to be something other than we are, then people will be naturally drawn to working with us. And the final thing, and this is what John. Where I first came across John and what he’s well known for, is this idea of saying fuck it. And I really do recommend going and reading his books, they’re excellent. But I really liked his own.

Melody Moore [01:28:05]:
You know, this story I’d not heard before about him when they first went out to Italy and set up the Hill that Breathes, which was their retreat centre, was actually. It made him more ill and he was more stressed and he had his own fuck it moment in terms of relaxation into it. And that’s the birth of fuck it. I hadn’t realised that they hadn’t developed that before they went out there and actually partly going out there and setting up that retreat centre is what gave him the idea from his own personal experience to really fuck it and live in the moment and enjoy his life as it was. My guest next week is Lisa Smith from Ginger Baker. She runs an amazing small bakery in the Lake District and hers is an awesome story of some of the challenges that she’s experienced in her entrepreneurial journey. She makes the most delicious cakes and she has a really, really interesting story and a really great way of telling it. So really do tune in next week.

Melody Moore [01:29:19]:
This podcast is brought to you by Liberare Consulting. If you enjoyed today’s show, why not click on the subscribe button? So you are among the first to hear about new episodes and we would love for you to do us a favour and click on the Share button and share this episode with one of your friends.